Cheap Insulation

[BeniRose]

Hey guys. I'm finally giving in and rearranging my studio, getting out of the corner and moving to the other side of the basement. I'm only renting the place now and will possibly be moving within a year, but I really want to build a wall to get some sort of isolated section of my basement, because right now it's all just one big room. I'm just planning on building a 1.7x1.9m frame with 2x4s with a double 2x4 beam down the middle, and covering each side with drywall and putting a plexi window on it somewhere (I know plexi isn't as good as glass, but it's cheaper, lighter, and easier for me to install than a window). As the purpose of the room is to somewhat isolate (there's going to be an opening to it without a door, but it will be off axis from the noise source...it's essentially a permanent gobo, rather than an actual iso booth) I figured I should put some sort of insulation in between the two sheets of drywall. As I said, I'm only renting, so I'll probably have to scrap this whole thing when I move out, so I'm not looking to spend much money, but I was wondering if there's a specific material or type of insulation I should use. I heard mineral wool was good, is it much more expensive than regular old insulation? What kind of cost am I looking at here? Again, I can't stress enough that this is not for anything professional, so please don't recommend a $50/foot insulation because it's "the best", but I just thought I'd see what you guys thought would be the best option in terms of what usually gets put in walls. Thanks!

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

I'm just planning on building a 1.7x1.9m frame with 2x4s with a double 2x4 beam down the middle,

What is the "beam" for? Especially in the "middle"...ie...a "beam" is a HORIZONTAL support element vs a POST which is a VERTICAL support element. So what is it that you need to "horizontally" support?

and covering each side with drywall and putting a plexi window on it somewhere

For what its worth, you might as well leave the opening empty considering the transmission loss value of plex. Not to mention the "weak link" syndrome. Here is why. When you penetrate a wall assembly with a given rating(yes, a stud wall with a layer of drywall on each face and the cavities filled with insulation have a TL rating), unless the element you put in that penetration has the same rating, you might as well have built the assembly to match that element in the first place, as you have now LOWERED the rating of the assembly as a whole...ie..."weak link". As to cost, a piece of 1/4" glass is cheaper than 1/4" plex(from my experience). You would be wiser to use TWO pieces of 1/4" glass with an airgap between.

However, this info becomes moot unless this proposed "partition" is sealed at the perimeter and there are no other flanking paths...which considering the following statement...essentially dooms the purpose of an "isolation partition"

As the purpose of the room is to somewhat isolate (there's going to be an opening to it without a door, but it will be off axis from the noise source...it's essentially a permanent gobo, rather than an actual iso booth)

which now begs the question....exactly what is the purpose of this...er..gobo?
ie....WHAT are you trying to isolate from WHAT??? And exactly how do you put an OPEN door and window into a partition 67" wide(1.7M) and? Especiall if there is a BEAM in the middle. I don't get it.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

er....untill you explain a bit more, the question of insulation is moot.

 

[BeniRose]

er....untill you explain a bit more, the question of insulation is moot.

Sorry about that Rick, I just read back over my post and I realized how confusing it was! I should've put up a picture, so I'll do that now. Here's the layout of my basement now, the big black objects are appliances I can't move, except for the bar in the top right corner, which is just a drainage pipe that runs about 2' off the ground (you know, just to get in my way ) I'm currently in the corner against that pipe, but I'd like to move to the 14' wall.

And here's where I'd like to put the divider:

So yeah, I'm not sure if this still applies or not, but I'd like to use the separation to possibly put drums behind it to reduce bleeding into other mics on the other side of the wall, so I don't have to run the amps upstairs when I'm recording live. Also, I'm not going to lie, my basement isn't the nicest looking (or treated) place to record, and I thought having a partition would give it more of a "studio look and feel", which while it sounds like total BS, could actually prove to be the psychological push someone needs to give me a better performance!

So yeah, is the wall a total waste of time? Will it not reduce bleed (or make me look cooler) at all? Would I be better off building a gobo? I'd love to fully treat this basement and build a full iso booth, but like I said, I'm just renting the place, so in the mean time, I'm trying to get it to sound as decent as possible without wasting too much money on something that I won't be sticking with.

Oh yeah, and as for the "beam" I didn't really mean beam. I just meant three columns of studs (left side, center, and right side of wall) with 2x4s stretching across the top and bottom and then just screwing drywall to all of those studs. Essentially take that picture you posted, flip it on it's side, cover it in drywall, and put a window on the vertical middle of the right half.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

I'd like to use the separation to possibly put drums behind it to reduce bleeding into other mics on the other side of the wall, so I don't have to run the amps upstairs when I'm recording live.

Now thats more like it. I makes all the difference in the world when the person reading your post has a clear picture of what you are asking.

Ok, so "mic bleed" is what you are trying to prevent. Ok, I wouldn't shieth both sides of the frame. I'd leave one side open to the booth area, fill the cavities with R-19 batt insulation, and cover with fabric. The other side I would clad with drywall, plywood or OSB. And I wouldn't use plex. Use 1/4" glass, even if it costs more where you live. Actually, I'd check out thrift stores and such. Sometimes you can find old glass from fixtures etc. I've personally done this with success.

I thought having a partition would give it more of a "studio look and feel", which while it sounds like total BS, could actually prove to be the psychological push someone needs to give me a better performance!

Absolutely.

Essentially take that picture you posted, flip it on it's side, cover it in drywall, and put a window on the vertical middle of the right half.

Thats more like it. Exactly what I was thinking.
fitZ

 

[BeniRose]

Awesome man, thanks so much!!! The pictures were also a great help, I really appreciate you taking the time to make those for me. I was gonna just do a center "beam" and put the window on the left side (from where the drums are) but maybe I'll put it in the center like your picture shows. I hadn't thought of getting a refurb window, that's a pretty good idea. I just know installing windows on the outside of a house can be a pain in the ass, but I guess if it's just for a temp wall, I don't really need to be very exact, so it will be pretty painless. I'll try to get some prices on the R-19 and see what it comes to, I might have to put it off until I get a job in September, but I figured I could slowly get the parts if each nothing doesn't cost too much individually. Thanks again!

Oh, I forgot to ask, how many layers do you think I'll need to use of the R-19 so I can figure out how much I need, if I use 2x4s for the frame. Do I just want to wrap it in a nice stretchy fabric and glue it to the drywall?

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Do I just want to wrap it in a nice stretchy fabric and glue it to the drywall?

No, staple it to the frame at one corner, then stretch it to the diagonally opposite corner and staple it. Then stretch the fabric to another corner and staple it, and again to the diagonally opposite corner and staple it. Pull the fabric at the perimeter as you staple about every inch along the perimeter. Then staple it to the frame around the jamb frame. Then cut the fabric at the edge of the jamb/2x frame intersection. Then nail a wood trim over the fabric around the jamb and along any exposed edges. See the sections below. Actually, I have other suggestions for you but no time right now.

PS...get a hand stapler that uses T-50 staples and use 3/8" or 1/2" T-50's. Also, you asked about cheap insulation. R-19 is about as cheap as you find. HOWEVER...if it even took longer to save, I'd wait till you could afford OC703. Its worth it.