Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes to the way I think/work/do

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Aww shucks GT.. thanks man... I do think "brilliant" is overstating it though! :D

BTW, my band has sort of temporarily perhaps permanently fallen apart so I'm doing some remixing of tunes I recorded with "the other guy" on my new system. I'm doing my songs first in case the bastard doesn't come back - I can then continue on with an album of my stuff - I might stick them up in the MP3 clinic shortly and PM you so you can update your copies.... ;)

Thanks for the rap on T of V too... I'll have to get the DADF#AD guitar out and give it another play before I forget it. Sounds awesome on just a solo guitar...:cool:

I agree with Grim, your voice is nice man, I would definitely say brilliant. I had a quick listen to Jongleurs on MySpace just now, I assume you are singing in some/all of these tunes? I don't recall hearing your stuff before which is shame on me as you've given me so much helpful and good advice. I enjoyed it, and be sure to let me know if you make it to London. :)
 

I won't copy all of your reply here Grim but I'd like to thank a lot for your input, I always appreciate your take on things, covering all aspects of my question so thoroughly. I'm quite intrigued by your book 'binding' activity I have to say. I couldn't quite figure out what you were doing with it though, editing or binding? I also hope your son is doing well. Cheers dude. :)
 
I agree with Grim, your voice is nice man, I would definitely say brilliant. I had a quick listen to Jongleurs on MySpace just now, I assume you are singing in some/all of these tunes? I don't recall hearing your stuff before which is shame on me as you've given me so much helpful and good advice. I enjoyed it, and be sure to let me know if you make it to London. :)


LOL... I'd forgotten we even had a My Space page, so I just checked and.... that's not me... that's Rich, the other half of the band... :D He does have a good voice.

You can find me on our Soundcloud page - Damaged, We Are Not The Same, (I'm Not Afraid Of) The Dark & Gypsy have me as lead... I'm just a little lower / croakier than Rich is... these are the songs I'm remixing incidentally, and on that page they're all old mixes that I now regard as pretty average... I have much better mixes I haven't put up anywhere yet... ;)

Thanks for listening and your kind words...
 
LOL... I'd forgotten we even had a My Space page, so I just checked and.... that's not me... that's Rich, the other half of the band... :D He does have a good voice.

You can find me on our Soundcloud page - Damaged, We Are Not The Same, (I'm Not Afraid Of) The Dark & Gypsy have me as lead... I'm just a little lower / croakier than Rich is... these are the songs I'm remixing incidentally, and on that page they're all old mixes that I now regard as pretty average... I have much better mixes I haven't put up anywhere yet... ;)

Thanks for listening and your kind words...

You need to update the link in your username :) Oh my God, Love (emotion & band) is all I can say to (I'm Not Afraid Of) The Dark & Gypsy. Nice tunes, same goes though, brilliant voice. Lucky bastard. :D
 
LOL... I'd forgotten we even had a My Space page, so I just checked and.... that's not me... that's Rich, the other half of the band... :D He does have a good voice.

You can find me on our Soundcloud page - Damaged, We Are Not The Same, (I'm Not Afraid Of) The Dark & Gypsy have me as lead... I'm just a little lower / croakier than Rich is... these are the songs I'm remixing incidentally, and on that page they're all old mixes that I now regard as pretty average... I have much better mixes I haven't put up anywhere yet... ;)

Thanks for listening and your kind words...


I heard your guitar page. That's some awesome stuff ya got there. I may use it as inspiration for classical stuff. :)
 
I'm quite intrigued by your book 'binding' activity I have to say. I couldn't quite figure out what you were doing with it though, editing or binding? I also hope your son is doing well.
The editing/binding thing runs thus; Sometimes, people will put out of print books on a pdf or on a website. I'm very much a book person; my kids laughingly go on that I should get a kindle or some kind of e~book thingy, but I like books to put on my bookshelf. So when I have the book, I transfer it to a word document and I have to go through each page to correct any spelling mistakes and put it into the font I want and any bits I want to highlight in different colours. In Brent, they're very community oriented so you can print a 200 page 'document' for free then Rymans will bind it at 4p a page. I found a great online book by a guy called Ray Newman called "The complete story of Revolver" {it really should've been published} and one that I made into a book called "How to mix a pop song from scratch", among others. It does take a bit of effort but it's better than paying £76 for a rare book !
 
I'm thinking you're a Calibri type of guy, font-wise....:D
I actually really like Kirsten ITC. In one of the books I've just done, I got to page 70 before I concluded that 240 pages of Kirsten was going to drive me nuts so I started again and went with Arial........size 14 ! :D
My 8 year old son showed me how to do fab things with "Word art" which I'd never heard of but it can look great so I use it for chapter headings.
 
I actually really like Kirsten ITC. In one of the books I've just done, I got to page 70 before I concluded that 240 pages of Kirsten was going to drive me nuts so I started again and went with Arial........size 14 ! :D
My 8 year old son showed me how to do fab things with "Word art" which I'd never heard of but it can look great so I use it for chapter headings.

What about comic sans?

NO. :mad: :spank:

Hey, that's one kick arse hobby man, it's cool to think you're the guy that takes the time to appreciate and acknowledge the underdog of writers in an accessible manner. Long may blokes like you exist. What did you learn form the 'How to mix a pop song book scratch' BTW? Any tips you wanna share?
 
You need to update the link in your username :) Oh my God, Love (emotion & band) is all I can say to (I'm Not Afraid Of) The Dark & Gypsy. Nice tunes, same goes though, brilliant voice. Lucky bastard. :D

Ah... task for the weekend then. Get remixes up on soundcloud and update HR profile! Glad you like them. Just about to remix Gypsy and all the others sound heaps better in their new clothes... :D
 
Great! Welcome to the world of real and serious recording. Take some time off and start recording sound effects. Then bring in some crap sounds and singers and try to get them accurate. Make accuracy your new God. Get used to what works and what doesn't so your process becomes second nature. Keep notes, develop these good habits and then go back to actually tracking things that are meaningful to you. Good Luck,
Rod Norman

When I started on this recording thing a while ago I impressed myself quite a lot by getting a driver to work with my usb interface. Never mind about levels & timing and all that. Then I posted my first thing to the mp3 clinic and nothing has been the same since. :D

It's impossible for me to have the same casual attitude about what I'm doing as I did when I started, and it's slowed the production down quite a bit. Everything goes through a severe inspection, if I'm not happy, I start all over. And then I'm still not happy. I'm not really a perfectionist, but I'm becoming a pretty severe one over this. I hope this is temporary and just the steep learning curve that I have to go through to get the basics of recording under my belt. What do you guys reckon?

Anyone else go through the same thing when they first started recording?
 
Yo Frits! Ah- the learning curve. More hats to wear. You thought you were a singer-songwriter. Then you thought maybe you'd be a recording artist. So- you discovered that you would have to be a recording engineer to do that. Now you're finding out what a producer does, because- poof!- you are one now. And- you are also becoming an executive producer. Holy cow! What's the difference? The producer is the person with the final say in the creation of a media project, whether a single song, an album, a movie, play, or whatever.

An executive producer figures out how to pay for it, and finds the material and human resources the producer needs. The producer decides when something is good enough, and when it's not. She hires and fires talent. The hardest part is when you have to drop someone you really like from a project, because their tracks just didn't work. The other hard part is knowing when to say one of these things- "That's not perfect, because *I'm* not perfect. If I did it a thousand times, I'd find a thousand little ways to screw it up. That's the best I can do. It's a keeper." "That's not the best you can do, and you know it. Sigh-take thirty-seven." "This song is beyond me right now- Delete from project. Guess I need a different song." Deciding which of those to say is the most important thing a producer does, and it applies to individual tracks, and entire songs. If you are going to produce yourself, you need to look very hard and very realistically at yourself, assess your strengths and weaknesses, and do what you can do, instead of trying to do what you can't. What you can't do is what practice is for. Production is all about showcasing the best that you *can* do. Sometimes the right thing to do is to go find people that can do what you can't. Working with people like that will also increase the things you *can* do, because if you're smart, you'll learn from them.

Miroslav and I have very different perspectives and approaches, and they are both valid. I think that if you can't do it in one take, you're not ready to record. One of the advantages of owning a studio is that you aren't pressured by time to "fix it in the mix". I said "one take", not *the first take*. On the other hand, spot editing and comp tracks can cut production time, and sometimes can save a truly great track with one or two fatal flaws. Like makeup, I believe these techniques should be used sparingly. That's a matter of taste, though, whether you prefer Heidi Klum or Alice Cooper. Are you being foolish to try and get it in one take? No. How do you get to Carnegie Hall, as they say? Practice, practice, practice. But, do a comp track or two, and some spot-editing with pitch correction, just to learn those techniques. Playing isn't the only thing you are practicing, so spread the love around.

Here's a warning for you. Discovering that you are a producer isn't the only thing that's going to creep up on you. The worst of it is when you discover that the CD you've sweated and fretted over, your baby, is finally done. Now it's a *product*, and you have to *sell* it, to cut your losses, upgrade your gear, and support the next project. Congratulations- Now you're in *sales*! If you survive that, you might become a recording artist, a producer, or both. Good luck. We'll be there for you. We're all in this together, as Red Green says.
 
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Yo Frits! Ah- the learning curve. More hats to wear. You thought you were a singer-songwriter. Then you thought maybe you'd be a recording artist. So- you discovered that you would have to be a recording engineer to do that. Now you're finding out what a producer does, because- poof!- you are one now. And- you are also becoming an executive producer. Holy cow! What's the difference? The producer is the person with the final say in the creation of a media project, whether a single song, an album, a movie, play, or whatever.

An executive producer figures out how to pay for it, and finds the material and human resources the producer needs. The producer decides when something is good enough, and when it's not. She hires and fires talent. The hardest part is when you have to drop someone you really like from a project, because their tracks just didn't work. The other hard part is knowing when to say one of these things- "That's not perfect, because *I'm* not perfect. If I did it a thousand times, I'd find a thousand little ways to screw it up. That's the best I can do. It's a keeper." "That's not the best you can do, and you know it. Sigh-take thirty-seven." "This song is beyond me right know- Delete from project. Guess I need a different song." Deciding which of those to say is the most important thing a producer does, and it applies to individual tracks, and entire songs. If you are going to produce yourself, you need to look very hard and very realistically at yourself, assess you strengths and weakness, and do what you can do, instead of trying to do what you can't. What you can't do is what practice is for. Production is all about showcasing the best that you *can* do. Sometimes the right thing to do is to go find people that can do what you can't. Working with people like that will also increase the things you *can* do, because if you're smart, you'll learn from them.

Miroslav and I have very different perspectives and approaches, and they are both valid. I think that if you can't do it in one take, you're not ready to record. One of the advantages of owning a studio is that you aren't pressured by time to "fix it in the mix". I said "one take", not *the first take*. On the other hand, spot editing and comp tracks can cut production time, and sometimes can save a truly great track with one or two fatal flaws. Like makeup, I believe these techniques should be used sparingly. That's a matter of taste, though, whether you prefer Heidi Klum or Alice Cooper. Are you being foolish to try and get it in one take? No. How do you get to Carnegie Hall, as they say? Practice, practice, practice. But, do a comp track or two, and some spot-editing with pitch correction, just to learn those techniques. Playing isn't the only thing you are practicing, so spread the love around.

Here's a warning for you. Discovering that you are a producer isn't the only thing that's going to creep up on you. The worst of it is when you discover that the CD you've sweated and fretted over, your baby, is finally done. Now it's a *product*, and you have to *sell* it, to cut your losses, upgrade your gear, and support the next project. Congratulations- Now you're in *sales*! If you survive that, you might become a recording artist, a producer, or both. Good luck. We'll be there for you. We're all in this together, as Red Green says.

Fantastic reply and I wouldn't have expected anything less. Thanks for your kind, encouraging and entertaining words Richard. No doubt, as with a lot of your advice, I shall be reading it more than once before I get my head around it all.
 
Great! Welcome to the world of real and serious recording. Take some time off and start recording sound effects. Then bring in some crap sounds and singers and try to get them accurate. Make accuracy your new God. Get used to what works and what doesn't so your process becomes second nature. Keep notes, develop these good habits and then go back to actually tracking things that are meaningful to you. Good Luck,
Rod Norman

Yeh good idea, I might just do a bit of experimenting now with what you say and other things too. I watched an interesting doco called David Bowie- 5 years. It reminded me to look a bit more into Eno's methods, it sounded quite interesting how he got Bowie's band members to catch his method of working. It was the best bit of the doco. :)
 
Have some rep, Frits! Thanks for your kind words. This is an easy one, because when I started, I was pretty much where you are now. I was older though, and that has its up-side and down-side. The up-side- I had thirty years of performing experience, and a realistic budget. The down-side? I have a lot less time left to me.
 
What about comic sans?
Funnilly enough, Comic sans is the other font I really like.
Hey, that's one kick arse hobby man, it's cool to think you're the guy that takes the time to appreciate and acknowledge the underdog of writers in an accessible manner. Long may blokes like you exist.
I wouldn't so much describe it as a hobby as a necessity. There are some 'books' or long articles or series of articles that only exist online and I've always dug the immediacy and portability of books, so........
There have been books I could have got by downloading and printing, like the book on mixing by Bobby Owsinski {The mixing engineer's handbook} but I didn't want to do him out of the money he should get if I buy a copy so I just bought it. I tend to do the download and print thing only for deleted books or things that only exist online.[/QUOTE]
What did you learn form the 'How to mix a pop song book scratch' BTW? Any tips you wanna share?
There were too many tips to share but here is the page with the access to it. It's interesting. The thing I remember off the top of my head is "Boff, bong and sizzle" which is a reference to punchy drums. It's a pretty good tome, definitely worth reading. Obviously, like everything, there will be things carved in stone that one can go against. Because I had already mixed, it's hard to say exactly what, if anything, I learned.

start recording sound effects.
Pretty much from the start I would use my own sound effects. Back in the 90s, I didn't have access to something like the Zoom H1 that I use now so I used either my crummy Olympus dictaphone or my Fostex X15 4 track. I still have vibrant memories of sneaking into a cowshed on a farm in Ireland with 4 track and mic strategically placed on a freezing December day to catch cow noises {I had a song called "Moo to you too !" so I needed my bovine buddies} or chasing sheep somewhere in Wiltshire while recording their baa~ing or being chased by a barking dog but getting some great barks. And no bite, to boot.
Coo, the things I'll do for a few seconds of noise that few would even notice anyway !
Keep notes,
Very rarely have I ever kept notes. A couple of times I kept notes on settings on a bass amp I used to have. I also kept some Hammond organ notes but I go for the fresh approach, which may be to my disadvantage because I can never repeat something I liked ! I think notes are actually a good idea.

Y I watched an interesting doco called David Bowie- 5 years.
Dang and durn, Billybob ! I meant to watch that. Still, I'm sure BBC4 or Sky arts 1 or whoever showed it will repeat it sooner or later. When I was a kid, you only ever saw something once because the TV companies used to reuse the tape, thereby wiping the programme. Repeats in many instances were a dream of a future age......
 
Dang and durn, Billybob ! I meant to watch that. Still, I'm sure BBC4 or Sky arts 1 or whoever showed it will repeat it sooner or later.

I always had a soft spot for Bowie on account of those white tights he wore in Labyrinth. But after watching this doco (which was an excellent production IMO), I love him even more. He's a bit of a genius and took his music and self to every possible place he could. It's on BBC iplayer.
 
I always had a soft spot for Bowie on account of those white tights he wore in Labyrinth. But after watching this doco (which was an excellent production IMO), I love him even more. He's a bit of a genius and took his music and self to every possible place he could. It's on BBC iplayer.
The first I heard of him was before I heard his music. There was 'word' that he "wore make up and named his son Zowie", which, when I was 10, was wild. Later that year, he rereleased "The laughing gnome" which I thought was cute. He gets slated in most publications for that song, but I think it's fantastic, as is it's B side "The gospel according to Tony Day". But I really took note of him when "Space Odditty" was rereleased when I was 12. That's the song that first got me into the acoustic guitar. And for me "Hunky Dory" is still his album to kill for, if not die for !
 
Then bring in some crap sounds and singers and try to get them accurate.
Wouldn't "accurate" mean getting them to sound like crap? If you get crap sounds and singers to sound good, you're not being accurate at all.
 
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