Cellar Conversion Need some advice.

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Freya

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Trying to get my life back on track after going through a disastrous period! Things are going loads better for me again but I want to help things along! :)

I have a cellar space that I'd like to convert into a studio space. However there are some issues.
First it's a back to back terraced house. 3 intimate neighbours. The biggest problems tend to be from the house behined as the walls between them and me have the soundproofing ability of carpet. No, more like egg cartons when I think about it. I'll never forget the day someone visited and suddenly looked shocked and said, do you have a parrot. It was next door. This is why people become convinced these houses are haunted I reckon. I've lived in cheap flats and bedsits with more privacy from a sound point of view. It's less a wall, more of a visual curtain.

Anyway I think this can be massively improved with a bit of plasterboard and some loft insulation, which bring me to the second problem. High humidity levels. The walls don't feel damp or anything but I left a drill bit sitting there for 6 months and it went very quickly rusty! Not good. As a result I'm only going to use very cheap equipment in there if I can help it.

So heres the big question. Should I attempt to use loft insulation behined the plasterboard or will it absorb moisture and cause problems? I could just use plasterboard with an airgap? I am mostly just looking at doing the back wall where I suspect there will be least moisture. I suspect the moisture is from the front below ground bit which I'd like to leave as brick.

Also was thinking of adding a UPVC door but I'm now wondering if this might seal in moisture!
The trouble is, soundproofing and air tight = good whereas for moisture ventilation=good! Arrrrghhh! Any suggestions? They are all welcome! :)

love

Freya
 
This whole project hinges on what you intend to record in the space and yer playback volume. You can probably snug it up enough for vocals and acoustic guitars - maybe a small 10-watt studio amp but it will probably be prohibitively expensive to try to isolate it for a drum kit or "real" guitar amps. Sound treating so it sounds good in the space is entirely different than isolating it so the neighbors ain't bugged. You can make it sound damn good for fairly cheap but it'll sound pretty good in their house too.


lou
 
Yes it's only a small space so full kit percussion would be out anyway. Wouldn't rule out smaller hand drums tho. Mostly you are spot on however, no drums and I just want to cut down the sound transmission. In a way it's a privacy thing, if I want to sing about talking to cats or the people who ate beetles or something, I want to do so without sharing entirely with the immediate neighbours.

I'm now thinking that I can maybe control the flow of sound with the flow of air. If I leave the underground wall as it is then some sound could escape into the ground maybe, then if I block sound towards the two party wall directions the easiest path would be through the wall into the centre of my house and hopefully up the stairs and to dissipate into my house. That could mean keeping some ventilation going and at the same time saving money on sound insulation too while getting the sound to go where I don't mind.

Do you think that could work?

love

Freya
 
A cellar, really? Some folks have a basement, but a cellar sound so much cooler.

Man, you have got your work cut out for yourself! I am thinking you may end up doing little more than driving yourself crazy trying to "keep the noise in," perhaps it might be better to just make nice with your neighbors, and do something like introduce them to all your cool musician-type friends and take 'em out to the hip clubs in your town, occasionally?

As for the humidity problem, you can control that with a pipe-and-gravel drain installed where the outside walls meet the floor, and a dehumidifier or window-type AC. Water both the drain and dehumifier/AC collect will have to be either gravity drained, or sump-pumped away. Only drawback it you will have to run the de-humidifier or AC 24/7- but you can turn it off briefly while recording, with no ill effect.
 
I'm lucky enough to kind of have both! The bit I call the basement is rather like what you are describing it's below ground level sort of but has a window and stuff, it's not actually underground. The cellar bit is unfortunately underground! No windows. There used to be a hole for letting the coal in but it's been blocked up and so far I can't find it outside which leaves me asking questions!

It's quite a strange thing as you step inside my cellar and it feels a bit like stepping back in time. It still has the wattle and daub ceiling and the huge stone slab for "refrigerating" food! At one point I thought about changing it all but I think I'm going to embrace its periodness and minimise the changes, so that it still has at least some of the old character.

Strangely the basement bit is at the same level as the cellar.
No idea if thats the actual definition of a basement or a cellar but thats how I see it.

In the long term I would like the basement bit to be the control room but for now I want to just get up and running.

Thanks for the tips tho. I'm thinking those could maybe help if I were to dig the cellar out or something! :)

love

Freya
 
BTW, as I say it's more of a privacy issue (I'm showing my age now!). Noise is not so much of a problem as people have learnt to pretend it isn't there. It's a bit hard to explain, just last night there was a LOT of screaming and yelling some of it quite strange and animal like in a new way I'd not heard before. Stuff like that happens a lot even now.

In fact My new neighbours at the back have kids who put on a certain song and go wild jumping up and down and shaking all the rafters and I actually don't mind at all. It's such an improvement on listening to people beating the c*** out of each other. It just isn't good for your psyche to hear people being slammed into walls and crying and stuff. Kids going wild is much better, and every so often their parents actually tell them off!! :) Once my new neighbours had a bizzare loud row which ended with them shouting "because I f****** love you" and "I love you too" at the top of their voices in a harsh and angry way and then the argument came to a close. Weird stuff but I love my new neighbours. So yeah the areas getting loads better but I don't think anybody would complain to me about noise, I'm quiet as a mouse compared to most others here! :)
 
Freya,

Regardless of what you put in the cavity - high humidity levels are a concern.

Mold will form with humidity levels reaching into the upper 40% range....... and mold is a serious health concern - even more so in rooms that are designed with sound proofing in mind.

You really want to maintain humidity levels under 45%.

If humidity is an issue than you should purchase a dehumidifier....... you can get units with small pumps to get rid of the condensate if you don't have a drain or sump pump in your basement/cellar. This is much more convenient that having to empty a pan once, twice (or more times) a day. There are also non-pan type dehumidifiers, the unit I own doesn't have a drain pan - it has a duct that vents the humidity directly to outside air.

Now - having said that........ fluffy insulation will give you a little more isolation in the lower frequency range - but fluffy insulation will support the growth of mold.

Rockwool with decrease low frequency TL values slightly - but will give a boost to the higher frequency TL values in a wall. Rockwool does not support mold growth.

You should also consider mold resistant drywall.

And you really REALLY need to make fresh air ventilation a part of your room design.

I hope this helps.

Rod Gervais
Director of Education
GIK Acoustics
GIK Acoustics. Acoustic Panels and Bass Traps. (USA)
GIK Europe, Bass Traps, Acoustic Panels (Europe)
Tel.(US)1.888.986.2789
Tel.(UK)+44(0)20.7558.8976
 
Thanks Rod! Fantastic answer! :)

I've not seen any mould in there so far but I also don't want to start developing any either and my perception is that the humidity is very high as things in there go rusty, not immediately, but over time.

I'm not sure quite what you mean by fluffy insulation? Rockwool (the company) make loft insulation as well as other products. Is their stuff all made from the same stuff? How can I identify the no go mould stuff!?

It does help, some really great thoughts in there. I didn't even know there was mould resistant drywall/plasterboard, so that is something I will look for!

Ventilation is definitely something I am thinking about a lot. I think the key might be to make a space thats reconfigurable. Sealed as far as possible while in use, open and ventilated all other times. For instance if I do add a sealing UPVC door then I will also add a way of locking it fully open too.

I'm also thinking some kind of venting could work? I'm still thinking abou that tho.

Awesome help! Thankyou!

love

Freya
 
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