CD Player Choice

  • Thread starter Thread starter Rusty K
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Rusty K

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Hello,

I've got a little problem and I'm not really sure which forum would be best to post in.

I need to take tracks from CD's into my computer. Can't extract because of pops and clicks present. Unfortunately I'm going to have to use a CD player and record the tracks I want (no pops or clicks).

I've got a 10+ yr old Onkyo R1 or I can use a new RCA 180 EX ESP-XTREME personal CD player. I just recorded a track with the RCA today and it sounds pretty good but the level was originally very low due I think to the 100db ceiling on volume with the personal CD player. My final mix sounds pretty good but I don't know if I should trust an old, but very good, CD player or go with pretty good newer technology.

Which would you use to do the job?

Rusty K
 
I would plunk down the $30 for a new CDROM drive so you can rip...no point in doing it analog!

Slackmaster 2000
 
Hey Slack,

So you think that's the problem? Are you sure the pops and clicks were not added at the burn process. This is a board recording of a live performance, mixed at the time and burned to a CD.

Guess I should have added that info in the first place....sorry!

Rusty K
 
Hmmm...I'm not exactly sure what your problem is now...

So you get these CD's, and when you try to rip them, you get clicks and pops? So you're wondering if it's the CDR's themselves, and maybe they just play correctly in the unit they were burned in?

I don't think that's going to be the case. My guess is that either the CDROM drive in your computer has issues with audio extraction and/or CDR's, or you're not using the best software.

Try Exact Audio Copy (free). I've used it and similar programs to actually make good copies of CD's that were so scratched they wouldn't play on ANY player.

http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/

Slackmaster 2000
 
Slack,

I'm constantly getting homemade CD's from musician friends that will only play on certain good CD players and/or that have pops and clicks in them. I have a TEAC pro burner and have never had a problem like that as long as I use pro CD's. I'm sure the nightclub that originated this CD was not using a pro burner. The CD's are Mitsui consumer.

Burn speed might be the problem. The guy is trying to get the CD to the band leaving while changing the stage for the next act.

Anyway I thought that this was a common problem. Sure is here but maybe I'm just hangin with the wrong crowd in Texas.

For my soundcard to function my CDROM is disabled for audio/playing CD's. I can extract data no problem. Oh yes and I'm using Cool Edit......remember Slack? Damn it's been nice the last three months finally getting to work on music instead of solving puter problems. Very happy.


Rusty K
 
So...you're now saying that you can extract fine with your cdrom? I thought you said that you couldn't? Is the issue playing the CD or extracting from the CD? I'm confuuuused!

Slackmaster 2000
 
Must be the cold......

Slack let me research a bit more. I just played it successfully on my sons jam box so I really can't swear whether the pops and clicks are on the CD or in my CDROM's reading.

Is it not a fact that good CD players will mask many of these kinds of flaws on a CD?

I would much rather keep it digital with my CDROM but I can't get a clean track.


RK
 
Yes, a good cd player will use more advanced reading techniques (greater oversampling, etc) and have less trouble with messed up discs...

However, when it comes to digital audio extraction, or creating a wave file on the computer from a CD audio track, just about any functional CDROM drive should work fine, given the right software.

For instance, I've used "exact audio copy" to make copies of CD's that I couldn't get to play in ANY player. It might take quite a bit longer, but the results can be impressive. Basically, the process eliminates the "realtime" factor of playing a CD and employs many techniques for what is essentially recovering data. In the simplest case, imagine reading a "bad" block on a CD over and over until you get say several like values...this might not be able to happen in time for a regular CD player to employ the technique long enough to avoid a dropout, but with digital extraction time doesn't matter.

Blah blah. My main point is that if you're buying a CD player to record CD's into your computer using analog connections, you are making a big mistake! Explore the extraction route first....it really should work!

Slackmaster 2000
 
I just tried to extract a track from a professional CD and it had pops and clicks. Soooo.....Slack you must be right then about my CDROM, ATAPI 52x.

Now I'm worried that it's not working because of my soundcard? Could the fact that the audio play function of the CDROM is disabled be causing this. If that were the case then it wouldn't matter what CDROM I put in it would still be the same result. I may have to contact my soundcard mfg.

Slack if you want to help me through the @#$%^& setup with EAC I'd be more than happy to snag it. I tried a couple of years back to get that program set up and couldn't. Worked on it for three month and finally gave up trying to find CD's that were in the data base to set the read/write offset.

Rusty K
 
Record with clicks and pop. . .then buy the Waves Restoration bundle!
 
Rusty, I just downloaded and installed the latest build of EAC and it works fine...very easy to setup and I was immediately able to extract a track...I didn't have to enter any kind of information.

You might have been confused about freedb, which is a free alternative to the cddb and contains information about albums such as track names, sizes, etc. It is not necessary to even use freedb to use EAC. For more information about freedb (it's pretty cool) go to freedb.org. Lots of programs are starting to use it.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Slack,

I copied the following from EAC "tips&specs"....

The WAV comparison feature could also be used to determine a combined reader/writer offset for exact audio duplication. This offset will be different for each pair of reader/writer.
To determine the offset, you need an already copied audio CD where the WAV files were extracted with 0 offset.
Now extract the same range (somewhere in the middle of a track) with your prefered audio drive of the original and the copied CD.
When extracted call compare WAV files and have a look at the number of the first missing/extraneous samples. This number will be the combined reader/writer offset. To determine wheter the number should be positive or negative, you have to look if the samples are missing or are extraneous. If the original wav file has extraneous samples at the beginning, the offset should be negative otherwise positive (if the file of the copied CD has extraneous samples the offset should otherwise be positive, etc.)
To check the correct offset, you could enter the offset value in the options and extract again the same range from the copied CD and compare it again with the range of the original CD, both should then be the same...


It depends on which CDROM you have as to how easy this program is to set up.

I'm also very confused about EAC. The program originated in Germany if I remember. As I stated I downloaded it two years ago. The author says he developed the software and decided to share it in March, which year I'm not certain but I pretty sure I didn't download a Beta version. That's all this guy has on his website.


More questions...sorry

Rusty
 
Dude, just try it. Setup was a breeze. It automatically setup all my CDROM drives...one being a totally generic DVDROM and the other being a Yamaha CDRW. At home I've tried with generic CDROM's and a Sony CDRW.

Give it a try real quick.

P.S., what you posted from the EAC website was about the wave comparison tool, which has nothing to do with extraction (directly). What they're talking about is lining up two different wave files so they can be compared correctly. Don't sweat it.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Bingo!

Slack,

Thanks man I just extracted a clean track. So I guess Cool Edit just wasn't extracting cleanly. I should have tried Goldwave as well but it's a moot point now.

I checked the "Test and Copy" option and it took about 40 min. to get one track. That can't be right is it? Which is the best option?

Oh yes this program doesn't look anything like the EAC I downloaded a couple of years back. Setup was as easy as you advertised.

Rusty K
 
Well, those testing routines used by burning and ripping software can indeed take a long time to complete. 40 minutes does seem extreme....what if you just rip a track, does it still take a long time? It should take less than a minute to rip your average track, sometimes well under a minute.

If it still takes a long time, I'd say you have a bad CDROM drive, or it's operating in the wrong mode (maybe PIO instead of DMA). Cool Edit just might not be as precise in its ripping scheme as EAC, which is why I wanted to you try EAC.

The good news is that a new CDROM drive can be had pretty cheaply.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Slack,

All is well. By ripping you mean the "copy" option? It's a bit weird. If I choose "copy" less than a min. If I choose "test" it's about the same but the one time I tried "test and copy" it was the 40 min. deal.

When I chose "test" upon completion I got the message that the file was extracted..... so it rips in either case?


I've already got three tracks onto my HD and mastered for CD. Thanks a million for your help on this. I'll pass EAC along to others.

Rusty K
 
Yeah, "copy" is just the user friendly term...traditionally converting CD audio tracks to wave files is called "ripping" or "extraction". The testing options probably extract at a whole bunch of different read speeds for overall success, thus it takes a long time to complete.

Sounds like everything is working fine for you....good deal!

Slackmaster 2000
 
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