CD Baby - thoughts?

[mjbphotos]

Epiphany. Thanks MJB.

I also play my originals live, and report them through the BMI Live feature. Any place that pays for it's PRO license qualifies- even doing 1 song at an open mic gets me money (more than stream payouts!)

 

[Armistice]

Post how it turns out andrush - I'm about to go the same route. I did it before with CD Baby in 2014 but I can't remember what I had to do.

I'm assuming you just upload the .wavs and provide the various bits of metadata including IRSC to them, but not actually encode it into the file itself? I know, I could go and look but I'm a couple of weeks away yet... Still at the tidy up stage.

It is pretty cool to show people your stuff on Spotify / iTunes etc. - I never tire of it...

 

[jamesperrett]

And does the MFiT stamp carry any additional weight?

While Apple would like to think so, I'm not sure that it really does make any difference.

 

[andrushkiwt]

While Apple would like to think so, I'm not sure that it really does make any difference.

That's the feeling I had too. I think they tried to make it a thing, but nobody paid attention...

 

[radi0j0hn]

The big trick is to promote your album. Any local papers who would like the story? Local TV? Community radio? Local "shoppers" needing a story?

 

[miroslav]

The big trick is to promote your album.

That was my point earlier...and the best way is through performance, unless you're just trying to sell the actual songs, as a publisher would.
The problem is that way too many people think that promotion is about uploading to somewhere, a website or streaming service, and then waiting for the fans to discover you. That may yield some play and some downloads...but when you consider that there are literally millions of people just like you doing the exact same thing...it's a needle in a haystack promotional value.

Hey...I too at one time thought that all that nonsense about the internet giving power to individual musicians was true, and that you can do it all yourself, and actually see something more out of it than a few download sales and some very niche interest in YOUR music.
I don't think that anymore at all, and have come to realize that you need to get out there...IF you are trying to sell yourself as an artist.
If you just want to try and sell the music...focus on getting with a publisher, and they will take care of the rest if they think your music has market value.

That said...I also think it's good for people to at least go through the motions of doing it themselves, that way they can learn first hand what works...or not.

 

[andrushkiwt]

Many a bands that are active, including my previous group that played with Korn, BB, and Monster Magnet, said that one uploaded video did more for them than 50 shows. Just sayin'. Not gonna argue here though, these guys are out there today in this current musical climate - not years ago. I'll leave it there.

 

[miroslav]

Many a bands that are active, including my previous group that played with Korn, BB, and Monster Magnet, said that one uploaded video did more for them than 50 shows. Just sayin'. Not gonna argue here though, these guys are out there today in this current musical climate - not years ago. I'll leave it there.

Not sure what you're trying to say here...that a video will do more for a band than performances?
Are you talking about a "music video"...or a video of them doing a performance...?
Can you post that video link?

If you're already performing and all that, and you enhance it with videos and music streaming, etc...that's one thing...but I'm not seeing how performance is less important than a video for an artist/band.
I've heard countless times from current artists/bands who are trying to make it, that performances are what counts the most.
I mean...if you want to create some artsy video with your music playing along, you might catch some attention, just like anyone else can do with music streams...but if your promoting yourself as an artist, there has to be more than streams and videos.
People are wary of electronic files as an absolute presentation...they know that everyone has a "studio" these days...and again, there are millions of people doing the exact same thing, and the notion is that it's not that big a deal...but when you're live, there's no question.

Again...I'm not really sure what your goal is...to promote yourself as an artist, or just your music, or both.

 

[andrushkiwt]

I'm saying that the video/streams were far more valuable for their brand than, in their words, 50 shows put together. They got nothing out of playing live, even at big events with big name bands. But putting things online, videos and music downloads, were where they got the most benefit. Their words, not mine. Just sharing.

 

[miroslav]

OK...but they're still a band that plays live...yes?...or have they completely stopped and are only using the internet and videos/streams?

Like I said, if you are already a performing artist, using the internet and streaming and social media and all that is certainly a way to enhance your promotion and presence...but I don't see how you can do much without any performance, solely via internet with videos and streaming, if you're promoting yourself as an artist.
I would like to know who has gotten some serious results doing just that...coming out entirely as an "online artist" from the get-go...?

Sure, once you're an established artist, cutting back or eliminating live performance is possible...heck, the Beatles were one of the first modern bands to stop playing out early in their band career and still push on purely with studio albums...but I don't know how a "new" artist can break out even these days with all the internet capability, without any live performance...unless you're like an EDM producer or similar, where there is no actual "artist".

 

[andrushkiwt]

I mean, just to throw it out there, J Bieber, I believe, was discovered solely from YouTube. Had a record contract before performing a single show, if I recall correctly. Hey now - you said you wanted to know!

Obviously it's hard to do, for sure. Myself, I don't go to shows. Most of these rock/alternative bands can't perform live very well anyway, and I'm always disappointed when I see a YT video of a live show or live acoustic thing and they sound completely different than the album, oh, and the singer can't sing either. Happens a lot. Too much. I personally enjoy music most while I'm driving, especially on long road trips where I can lose myself in it for hours. The drive from Chicago to Detroit, when I lived there, was always a good one for new music or my favorite artists. And I think people are more likely to discover someone new online, via Amazon or YT, than live. I can go to YT right now and listen to 10 new bands I've never heard of in 30 minutes, and maybe I'll care for one of them enough to go buy their stuff through Amazon. I think this is the way younger people see it too, IMO.

If you're talking about me personally, then I should say I don't have interest in being the "artist". I'm interested in writing and producing, though I want a finished product to have something to promote. If all else fails, well, I'm finishing up grad school for FNP, and the finacee is in the legal field, and we'll be just fine regardless. But no sense in not pursuing with some effort. Radio play is pretty cool, and I'll take this ride to see where it goes. I'm following through on some leads in the writing field that I'll share at a later point. But for now - want to get that album done to have a solid product to showcase.

 

[miroslav]

If you're talking about me personally, then I should say I don't have interest in being the "artist". I'm interested in writing and producing, though I want a finished product to have something to promote.

That's what I asked earlier...your goal...is it to promote yourself as an artist, or to promote just the songs/music, or both.

OK, Beiber...but that was about discovering a 15-year old kid, who fit a very specific category that covers that wide, early teen audience, which is a BIG money-maker. TBH...there were/are probably dozens of kids like that who could be molded into a money making machine for a rather easy to please young audience, with each new generation.

Honestly though...can you imagine Beiber now, as a 24-25 years old, never having been discovered before...trying to break out by posting his current music on YT.
I seriously doubt anyone would give him the time of day, considering the music style and his age...so he basically grew up into his current situation.
I think the same can be said for most of those kid stars, with few exceptions. They're basically done by their mid-twenties because they have not been able to generate a more mature audience...and the kids who listened to them at 15, are now into other stuff for the most part, as adults.

Anyway...I think there is an opportunity to promote music entirely via internet, and someone with serious clout may even find the music and consider it for some of their up-n-coming younger artists who don't necessarily write music...but IMO...you often need songs that can stand on their own, because usually they want to strip them down and re-record them with their big name production teams and all that...and they just want to send you a royalty check for the actual songwriting, and nothing more.
That can certainly be a lucrative situation, especially for songwriters who don't want to be artists or who don't really fit the kind of artist profile (for whatever reason) that the record people want...so then you just write the songs and let someone else deal with the rest.
Though again, you have to have songs that will stand on their own...something that can be reworked by them...rather than say, music that is very stylistic and depends a lot on your production and sound design to be interesting to people, and is not something that a publisher/producer would/could use for their own artist.

I was just reading in the current Tape Op magazine an interview with Dan Auerbach of The Black Keys, and it's mostly about his new studio in Nashville where he has production projects with young or unknown artists/bands, something he's doing apart from his Black Keys gig...and he's talking about all the great musicians there who have worked on many recording sessions over the years with various artists to help them make a good record. The big point was about the value of songs that when stripped down, could stand on their own, without dependence on a particular production style...that way, the musicians and artists who are going to record it, can make it their own, and it will still sound good.

I know there's all kind of music...everything from EDM/Hip Hop, which relies heavily on production for its sound...to your basic guitar-n-vocal stuff, which is almost 100% about the actual songwriting. So there's all kinds of paths someone can take.
I'm just saying that for *selling songs/music*...the better it can sound stripped down and basic, rather than depending on blown out productions, the better the chance of it being considered by a publisher or artist manager for their intended use.

I know you may be more into trying to promote your overall "sound" VS the actual "songs" at their stripped down state...and that's fine, there are certainly a lot of people who just want something new/different/same/whatever to add to their playlist. I'm just looking at it more from a purely songwriter perspective.
For me...it's about trying to step away more from the heavy production dependent songs...and looking to find ways to minimize that with more sparse approaches, so that the song itself pushes through, rather than depending on some "sound design"...but I know these days "sound design" is a big thing in much of Pop production, thought TBH....I think all that heavy sound design in some productions, takes away from the actual songs, and it's more about experiencing the sounds, the ear candy, rather then listening to the songs...if that makes any sense.

That's all the philosophizing about the current music industry I got for tonight...it's getting late.

 

[andrushkiwt]

...that when stripped down, could stand on their own, without dependence on a particular production style...that way, the musicians and artists who are going to record it, can make it their own, and it will still sound good.

Spot on and very true. And I was torn between acoustic/minimal versions and all out production, which may influence the way a publisher sees the song. If it's in its "final form", it has to be pretty darn good or else the allure of what could be is gone - you're hearing the likely final outcome. Keeping it low leaves room for interpretation and imagination; letting someone with an ear for pop/dance etc put their spin on it. I get that, I really do.

I can only say that I enjoy writing some stuff in a particular genre, and also that the vocal melody is key. I think a good ear, whether publisher or artist, could hear the vocal melody and take it for what it is, letting in as much of the production as they want, if any at all. The style I write/produce in is the same style that I would like to write for. These are pretty much "examples" without having a specific artist in mind at this point. Just my own ideas and melodies/production that I like, and hopefully, somehow, it comes through that I check the important boxes - melodic hooks, power words, and emotion.

The rest of it, and why I joined HR to begin with, is to show how those ideas sound in a real-world/pro-studio setting with quality production. Not many people care how it sounds acoustically, unless you're already a big artist who's now stripping down their hits to the bare bones, so I wanted to have something to say "here! this is what that vocal melody and chord progression sound like in the way I'm imaging". And as I've been doing that, the feedback has been excellent - never though iHeart Radio would take me on for several spins, so I think I'm on the right track. If the tunes are in a style that many, many similar artists use, then it might be easier to see how they would translate to THEIR sound and specific style.

I believe that for right now, I should have a finished product, and if something develops, then I could one day stick with only needing to do acoustic clips and short snippets to sell the ideas I have. I have 3 cell phones full of progressions with vocal melodies over them; some with words, but mostly nonsense and vowel sounds... but it wouldn't take long to develop them into a full tune. And if I could just do that... I'd be living the dream.

But I get you, just so you know. With some unexpected events coming into my life recently, my path took a little sidestep, but it's still what I'm working toward. Plus, I have people asking me to put them up on iTunes or somewhere where they could download, so, EP it is, I guess. If I make the right calls and put the right production on it, I think my choices in those areas will help as opposed to hinder any possible opportunities.

 

[miroslav]

Not many people care how it sounds acoustically, unless you're already a big artist who's now stripping down their hits to the bare bones...

That wasn't my suggestion, and frankly, I hate it when big name artists strip down their big hits and do that "unplugged" nonsense.

It's just an expression...that you know it's a good song when it sounds good with just an acoustic and vocal, etc, but not that you have to record them that way...
...as opposed to songs that only sound good when they're decorated extensively by production and sound design, which means it's the production and sounds that impress people, not so much the actual songs. Lots of modern Pop hits fit the later category, but as songs they're pretty forgettable and don't stand the test of time.
Not saying don't go for the production and sound design...I mean, that stuff is hip-n-cool to some folks, so then people will certainly jump on the copycat wave, and create more of the same. Like I said, there's all kinds of music...and people have many paths they can choose to follow.

Now I'm really signing off for the night.................

 

[RFR]

On that note, stripping the song down, thats very true. An unknown writer, artist ect, has no mkting value to a major label.
Now if the song is raw, that name producer that has worked on the last 200 records for the label will take over and all your hard work is in the toilet.
They'll mold it into their own image and make kazillions.

With this kind of music, alt rock or whatever title you give it.....Being fully produced, it needs to be sold as a done product. Youll get no major label backing on that.
Nope, gotta hit the streets and sell it. Either as a band, or sell it just online. Lots of hard work to make any money.

 

[Armistice]

That's presumably why andrush is working on a back up career by studying whatever he is that he's studying... just, you know, in case he doesn't make the big time, musically, hard to believe though that may seem.

How to be a well paid musician: have a well paid "real" job as your "side hustle".

 

[mjbphotos]

CDBbay does not ask for any metadata information, but do ask for the ISRCs (I seem to remember), so better have the files tagged already.

Videos still have to be promoted - just uploading them to youtube won't get you anything no matter how good they are, thousands of videos are uploaded every day, but no one is just going to stumble across yours. I've heard of people linking their videos as a comment on super-popular ones, but not sure that works - I would assume the owner of the original one would just delete your comment.

 

[miroslav]

That's presumably why andrush is working on a back up career by studying whatever he is that he's studying... just, you know, in case he doesn't make the big time, musically, hard to believe though that may seem.

How to be a well paid musician: have a well paid "real" job as your "side hustle".

On that note...
Anyone here over the age of 30 (and I'm being generous) that's just "thinking" about a Pop/Rock/whatever music career (as opposed to being already neck-deep into it)...
...you're probably too late.
There are other avenues in music that are not so heavily impacted by age, but for any new, break out artist(s), image tends to be directly associated with their age.

Being a hungry musician has some rebel appeal when you're in your late teens and early twenties...but it wears off quickly as you get older.
That's why many of us went and got real jobs...which paid for our music hobbies and audio toys.
Now with all our toys...if we could only wind back the clock.
I think back to my 20s, and imagine how it would/could have been if I had the same options and audio toys that are so readily and cheaply available to kids these days.

 

[andrushkiwt]

 

[miroslav]

I wasn't referring to you, if that's what you think. I don't even know how old you are.
It was just a general comment about the "need to get a real job" thing that Armistice brought up.