Caveman Blues

S

singlespeak

New member
Ever felt like dropping everything and just taking off? That's what Caveman Blues is about. That and the anchor of friendship.

Simple a-B-a structure, symbolizing the day and night cycle of a brand new life.
Fake drums, the whole thing probably overly compressed and/or limited. Do tell, I want to hear all about it.

Thanks for listening. Enjoy.
 
I found the arrangement a bit too messy. There's too much going on in the background and the sudden tempo changes don't work for me. The voice is too buried and undistinguishable. I'm sure your intentions with the song are good but I don't see it working the way it is. Less is sometimes more....;)
 
Cool thanks joeym. Messy, yes, I think I know what you mean. The arrangement is just piano organ bass guitar drum vocals though, as most of my songs are. Do you mean the mix is messy? That to me would make more sense than the arrangement.
Voice indistinguishable, that's remarkable. Other people have told me that before but I simply can't hear it so I've been reluctant to up the volume of the voice - I know the song inside out though. Is it just the loud part you're referring to, or throughout?
Less is more: I can't do it!! Must be bombastic! Can't help myself, sorry :D
My intentions are always excellent :cool:
 
I thought the song was kind of nice. A good toe tapper.

There is no definition to the bass - all the notes kind of blend together.

Little pops at :18, 2:55.

Everything gets sloppy at 1:28.

I thought the drums and the bass were both too loud. Or conversely - everything else was too quiet. The vox were quite tough to hear.

Doubled vocals would probably sound good.
 
Hmm, yeah I agree with Joey. The whole thing is kind of a mess - arrangement and mix. Sorry. The mix is harsh and cluttered. Could be over "mastered" or just a messy mix. Hard to tell. It definitely seems distorted. It sounds like 3 songs happening at once. The staccato piano lines make it sound jumbled. The time change and busy drums at 1:28 are kind of a wreck. I think the basic song idea is decent, but the mix is just all over the place. :o
 
Greg_L said:
The whole thing is kind of a mess - arrangement and mix. Sorry.
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That's fine, I appreciate the comment. Very odd though, I really like this song. I also like the way it sounds. Could it be that it's just because it's my baby? That's kind of a scary thought. How can I improve mixing if I like what I hear when it's really not good? :confused:
 
singlespeak said:
That's fine, I appreciate the comment. Very odd though, I really like this song. I also like the way it sounds. Could it be that it's just because it's my baby? That's kind of a scary thought. How can I improve mixing if I like what I hear when it's really not good? :confused:
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That's a good question. But that's also why you post stuff in here. If you like the song and arrangement, more power to ya. It's your song, and I can totally relate. I personally don't care if anyone likes my music. I only care about mix comments. But when you have different people all telling you basically the same thing about your mix, then it's probably got some truth behind it. What's your monitoring situation?
 
singlespeak said:
How can I improve mixing if I like what I hear when it's really not good? :confused:
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Man, if I knew the answer to that question I'd probably be a lot further along than I am :). My answer (such that I have one) is - "time". Listening to others comments, then taking some time away from a mix and listening again later with fresh ears seems to help with objectivity.

Usually all of my mixes sound pretty kick ass to me immediately after I'm done, but the real test is how they sound weeks or months later. Over time, I've found that my mixes are starting to hold up better to the test of time than they did years ago. In the moment though, objectivity is pretty difficult (for me anyway).

As for this tune...I thought it was very unique and energetic. I have few problems with the arrangement myself. I guess the piano part seemed a little busy at times and I would've liked some harmony or doubled vocals at some points, but I liked the overall combo of elements.

As for the mix, like your last one, this sounded overly limited and or compressed to the point where everything seems to be trying to "pop" at once. There is very little space left over for any air. I am no expert by any means, but it seems overly loud and a bit harsh.

The vocal performance seems good and spirited, but they are buried.

Bring down the drums and bass, bring up the vocals and turn things down a bit and I bet you would have something more listener friendly.:)
 
Greg_L said:
But when you have different people all telling you basically the same thing about your mix, then it's probably got some truth behind it. What's your monitoring situation?
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For sure, I'm not about to start saying y'all are wrong. I've got myself a pair of Alesis M1 Active 520. They sound a bit dull to me, not really happy with them, but they do a fairly good job I would think.
 
heatmiser said:
My answer is - "time". Listening to others comments, then taking some time away from a mix and listening again later with fresh ears seems to help with objectivity.
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Agreed. I listened to this way too many times while tinkering.

heatmiser said:
As for this tune...I thought it was very unique and energetic.
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Cheers man :drunk:

heatmiser said:
There is very little space left over for any air.
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Ah yes, the air. As elusive a concept to me as the dynamics. I mean I think I know what you mean, I just don't really know how to achieve it. Less limiting and compression, I'll definitely try it.
heatmiser said:
Bring down the drums and bass, bring up the vocals and turn things down a bit and I bet you would have something more listener friendly.:)
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I'll do that. Thanks!
 
singlespeak said:
For sure, I'm not about to start saying y'all are wrong. I've got myself a pair of Alesis M1 Active 520. They sound a bit dull to me, not really happy with them, but they do a fairly good job I would think.
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Those should work. Maybe it's just inexperienced ears? Also, how's your room? Treated? Are the monitors in a good place? All these things add up. No one can tell you how to hear things. You just have to keep working with it. Compare your mix to pro mixes and listen for the differences. Most pro mixes aren't cluttered and harsh. I'm not trying to be mean, but this mix is a mess. If you can't hear that, then I'd guess you just need more practice/experience.
 
I think the hardest thing for me on this mix is the rhythm guitar is buried so the only thing I have to help with the melody is the arppegio piano piece, which kinda fights with the drums.

There's also something going on on the left side but I had a hard time making out that instrument and what it was playing.

When you hit the time change midway thru, I felt like I was stumbling.. I am listening on headhpines at work so feel free to take my comments with a grain of salt.. :)
 
Greg_L said:
Also, how's your room? Treated?
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:laughings: You should see my 'room'. You'd stop responding after saying 'get a better room'. It's 7x10 feet... I do listen in cars, on headphones, friends' systems, etc.
Greg_L said:
Are the monitors in a good place? All these things add up.
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Yeah...
Greg_L said:
I'm not trying to be mean, but this mix is a mess. If you can't hear that, then I'd guess you just need more practice/experience.
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Your honesty is much appreciated. Maybe I fool myself into not hearing how big of a mess my mix really is...
 
79_Les_Paul said:
I think the hardest thing for me on this mix is the rhythm guitar is buried so the only thing I have to help with the melody is the arppegio piano piece, which kinda fights with the drums.

There's also something going on on the left side but I had a hard time making out that instrument and what it was playing.

When you hit the time change midway thru, I felt like I was stumbling.. I am listening on headhpines at work so feel free to take my comments with a grain of salt.. :)
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Overall: The mix is quite boxy. The vox are lost and the piano ostinato absolutely obliterates the rhythm guitar...it should be the other way around. The bass is very indistinct and could definately use some definition. Alot of that is the performance...there's just no space in the bass line so definition really suffers.

I think this piece is just too busy...too many things flying around..with some, perhaps, unintentional poly-rhythmic elements emerging...the relentless triplet rhythm in the piano part clashes with the straight 8th note rhythm of the guitar and vox. I would suggest dialing back the piano both in mix presence and rhythmic complexity..you might even experiment with shifting that piano part up and octave to further remove it from the guitar's register. It should go along way to cleaning up this arrangement and will be a hell of alot easier to mix due to the somewhat lower "density" of the soundstage.

Globally, I added a touch of EQ @ 1-2k and the vox and guitar tried to emerge...so there's likely something to address there.
Pretty interesting tune...when it pulls together, it should be pretty cool.:cool:
 
Okay, a nice song, but Damn! The instrumental tracks are trying their best to beat the vocalist to death and make this song an instrumental! And WAY too much synths- if it's "blues," you need to be VERY careful with synths- record it with as much "real" instruments or "real" musicians as you can (real in quotes to connotate that I am not ragging on synths.)

Overall, the song is too complex- strip it down in about six ways (fewer instruments, far less electronics, fewer or no tempo changes, etc. etc.) and you will have something that appeals far more to me, at least.
 
Thanks stevieb!
Musically I think this has nothing to do with blues. It mostly refers to the story of the song, yearning for a more natural lifestyle. I can't do blues, silly :rolleyes:
Hardware-wise, without going in to detail let's just say I have to make do with what is at my disposal, which means limited "reality". A Roland piano and a friend that I can borrow a guitar off.
I understand the comment about complexity but I'm not sure I fully agree. People are thrown off by the change in tempo that's fine, it's intentional, it's there in the lyrics (which you can't hear :laughings:). I think if I can clean up my mix it should sound less complex. I'm trying.
Thanks for listening and commenting, I appreciate it.
 
I think this piece is just too busy...too many things flying around..with some, perhaps, unintentional poly-rhythmic elements emerging...the relentless triplet rhythm in the piano part clashes with the straight 8th note rhythm of the guitar and vox. I would suggest dialing back the piano both in mix presence and rhythmic complexity..you might even experiment with shifting that piano part up and octave to further remove it from the guitar's register. It should go along way to cleaning up this arrangement and will be a hell of alot easier to mix due to the somewhat lower "density" of the soundstage.

Yeah. That was my impression.

My suggestions, in addition: Work the rythm guitar in an open 2/4 chop with accents and anticipations. That part's heavy, thick strum is a big reason, in addition to the piano, that the 'moo' freqs are heavy.

The three feel on the piano is sure gumming up stuff. Some simplicity...in 4/4...and space...where block-ish chords decay, and open up the space, would really be great.

The vocal is buried in the bridge. Much thinning required in the support instruments.

This tune has a groove. It's a thoroughly 'dance' number. The meandering bass is killing the best part. A locked-in, basic bass thang...hitting about 80% of the bass drum hits, would make things move and groove.

Good tune. Really good sounds. And the freq spec is solid. Some arrangement thinning might be all that's needed. Prune; less is more on the parts.
 
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