Cassette vs. Reel-to-reel

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Sonic Idiot

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Greetings,

I a home recording enthusiast and have achieved perfectly pleasing results wih a computer based setup. I recently got my hands on a very functional (and free) Sensui rackmountable cassette deck. I experimented with it by recording--onto a fresh, high quality tape--a mix of some electronic-y stuff. Then, fed it back into the computer. I was very surprised with the result. It added a nice fatness and what I imagine is the sort of tape compression I've read so much about. I'm impressed enough to further explore purchasing a piece of tape gear expressly for the above purpose--as a sort of tool in the arsenal. My questions for the experts are:

Will spending a few hundred on a decent reel-to-reel on ebay give me this effect in greater quantities?

I trust my ears and subjectively like what the Sensui does regardless of how acceptable the practice is to an audiophile. but since I have no experience with tape, and I'm truly impressed by its impact on digital material, I would like some opinions on the advantages of reel-to-reel above a high quality cassette deck. (balanced/unbalanced ins and outs and stuff are a given. I'm interested more in attributes that are unique to the medium of tape.)

Thanks to all.
 
You're not really getting the "tape compression" effect with 1/8" cassette tape...... some, but not the type you get from 1/2" 2-track reel...... if you want the "analog sound" that you hear about, you'll need to pick up a high-end 2-track reel-to-reel.
 
Could you elaborate a little more? I know tape speed is one factor. Other than that, what benefits does a 1/2 reel-to-reel offer? Again, the Sensui's effect was darn good--good enough that I'm certain I'll use it for certain things with confidence. But I'd like a little more technical explanation of what it is about reel-to-reel vs. cassette that makes reel to reel come out on top. On a practical note, has the industry ever produced a cassette deck that was designed to replace a reel to reel stereo master?
 
Well, in some way, they all were designed for that. ;)

Casette is a format that ill impose color on your recordings. This is not necessarily bad. In fact, that color will probably make things sound more coherent.

The fatness comes mostly from flutter and crappy high-end frequency response. ;)
 
Yeah, totally! The track I used the Sensui to great effect on has a seventies vibe: Rhodes piano type discoish Herbie Hancock kinda thing and running the mix through a cassette deck made the whole thing sound old, like you were listen to an 8-track you bought at a rummage sale. There's much lower noise, however, then you would expect from the bargain bin 8 track. The noise reduction on the Sensui is very effective--without it, the process would add too much noise to produce a pleasant result. That said, is noise reduction a common feature on reel-to-reels? Would it be wise to look for one with such a feature?

I've looked on ebay the last couple of days. Lots of Teacs and sonys and Akai's, and a handful of Otaris...from some reading, i've gathered Otari might be the best of this bunch. But the others are less$$$, plentiful and therefore easier to find one in good shape. Of these major brands, is there one you would recommend avoiding altogether?
 
My point was that the "analog sound" most people are so fond of in the studio was a result of tape compression inherent to the format on high-end analog reel-to-reel recorders.

Cassettes and portastudio are not (and never were) representative of that "analog sound."
 
Are you saying that the basic physical attributes of tape don't contribute significantly to this sound--basic attributes that any piece of gear using tape would pocess, to varying degrees, of course?

Are you saying that dumping a DAW mix onto a stereo two track reel-to-reel won't buy me even a small piece of that lovingly regarded analog sound?

Not trying to be a pest, just very curious and naive.
 
Blue Bear Sound said:
Cassettes and portastudio are not (and never were) representative of that "analog sound."
Click to expand...

Yes they are. Don't worry about it. Use what you have and just make good music.

Corey
 
filmdude11 said:
Yes they are.
Click to expand...
Right... just like the "4-tracks" the Beatles used were inferior to the 4-track Portastudios of today....... :rolleyes:

Do you even have a clue as to what you're talking about?
 
Sonic Idiot said:
Are you saying that dumping a DAW mix onto a stereo two track reel-to-reel won't buy me even a small piece of that lovingly regarded analog sound?
Click to expand...
No - that isn't what I said at all.... what I said was dumping to cassette is definitely going to degrade far more than benefit your sound.... dumping to a high-quality reel-to-reel, OTOH, WILL give you the analog sound characteristics that many people like.

The keywords in the post being "high-quality" and "reel-to-reel"......
 
What's in a name?

Why Reel to reel, running at 15 or 30 inches per second or, IPS for short is better then cassette running at 1.75 IPS is better is because you are using a much bigger butterfly net to capture your sound.

Kind of like taking a picture with a cheap web-cam verses taking a one with a Canon Digital Rebel with 8 mega pixels to capture your image.

More/thicker/faster tape = More sound captured at very high resolution.

While cassette is analog, it represents analogs lower if not lowest form of sound fidelity.

If you are impressed with cassette, you'll wet your pants when you hear a real, reel to reel running at professional standard speeds and widths.

No offense intended to you, Mr. S. Idiot but you sound like a man who has only ever eaten a hamburger and is ignorant of the existence and dinning experience of the taste of Prime Rib Steak.

Cheers! :)
 
I didn't say that. But analog is analog. There's wider tape and narrower tape, and some run fast and some slow. But it sounds like analog because it is analog.
 
filmdude11 said:
I didn't say that. But analog is analog. There's wider tape and narrower tape, and some run fast and some slow. But it sounds like analog because it is analog.
Click to expand...
Yeah... right.... :rolleyes:

Dump a mix to a cassette portastudio and also a 1/2" reel and see which sounds better.........
 
:rolleyes:

Are you thick or something, or do you simply like arguing in circles?
 
The problem with questions like the one posed is that the questions are short and sweet but proper answers to them could fill up volumes of books to answer completely and correctly and to the satisfaction of the original question poser.

Blue Bear is a very smart man and I am not the dimmest light bulb on the tree either but he and I know all this stuff in great detail and our quick answers will never satisfy the truly curious who want to know it all in one or two paragraphs of an answer.

In all fairness to Bruce, you shouldn't come here to answer questions unless you are prepared to fill in all the blanks an inexperienced user would have.

Your short answers are perfectly fine for a guy like me but are over the heads of newbies and thus a frustration to all concerned.

I have written a couple of FAQ's on analog recording and I suggest that ANYONE interested in learning about the format read up first and ask questions later.

Here's a link.

Analog FAQ

Cheers! :)
 
Wow. Sorry Blue Bear. Did my question unearth some repressed childhood trauma you've ben carrying? Sheesh. No need to get mad. And thanks to Ghost for his answer. It was short AND meaningful, even to analog newbie.

So, my question has been answered. I need a reel to reel. It is something I'm looking at as a tool--like an effects box of sorts. However, I'm not going to go the effort, expense and trouble unless I know I'm getting a decent machine. Let's me put some constant factors out there and see what you all think.

Assuming I find a machine in good working condition, cleaned, serviced, new rubber, etc., (I'm picking up lingo!) which brand or brands of stereo machine (no need for more than two tracks) are considered good.

I understand this is a vast sea I'm inquiring of, but you all must have opinions on the matter. All I'm fishing for is opnions.

Thanks.

Oooo, and thanks for the link, Ghost. Very good.
 
All I'm fishing for is opinions.
Click to expand...
I don't use an analog 2 track deck, myself.

Why?

Because I use a TASCAM MS-16, one inch, 16 track, multi-track deck to do my tracking.

For mastering, I use a Pioneer CD-R deck to master onto for 2 track lay-back mixes.

For the digital users out there looking for analog mastering, I would highly recommend the TASCAM BR20T, which is a current and available as new, 1/2 track stereo mastering deck with center time-code as well for those requiring SMTPE lock up.

I recommend it because almost anything else on the market would be a used item that is sure to come with it's own set of maintenance problems and newbies don't need those hassles.

Leave the good used machines for me and my 25 years of EXPERIENCE in using them and keeping them working properly.

DO NOT buy a used, broken, out of alignment machine and expect us here to talk you through bringing it back from ICU.

There's my opinion.

Cheers! :)
 
Sonic Idiot said:
Wow. Sorry Blue Bear. Did my question unearth some repressed childhood trauma you've ben carrying? Sheesh. No need to get mad.
Click to expand...
huh???? I was simply answering your questions!

The only person that annoyed me here was Filmdude for being a twit.........
 
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