StudioNewBee
New member
I want to make it a career as so far as engineering...What types of schooling can I go to so that I can get "educated" on the in's and out's of producing and mixing music?
Career
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SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
Honestly, the very first thing most of the schools will tell you on the very first day is that the chances of you actually getting a job making music are extremely slim. And they are right.
It's not the schools fault; it's that everyone and their dog wants to be the next Mutt Lange or Dr. Dre., yet there just are not that many actual positions to fill.
You can still wind up with a great career coming out of school, and the reputable schools have very fine internship and placement programs, but you might wind up finding yourself working in radio (of any format), or doing commercial or voiceover work, or TV/video post-production, etc. All great fields and all fine jobs, but you won't be - or work with - the rock or hip-hop stars that you dream of now.
That said, I would NEVER be one to deny one education. Look up Full Sail, SAE, Full Compass, for the big, expensive nation-wide schools with the most clout in internship and job placement.
For something cheaper but with perhaps not quite the placement power nationally, check out your local community colleges and trade schools for possible programs in audio engineering and production.
G.
It's not the schools fault; it's that everyone and their dog wants to be the next Mutt Lange or Dr. Dre., yet there just are not that many actual positions to fill.
You can still wind up with a great career coming out of school, and the reputable schools have very fine internship and placement programs, but you might wind up finding yourself working in radio (of any format), or doing commercial or voiceover work, or TV/video post-production, etc. All great fields and all fine jobs, but you won't be - or work with - the rock or hip-hop stars that you dream of now.
That said, I would NEVER be one to deny one education. Look up Full Sail, SAE, Full Compass, for the big, expensive nation-wide schools with the most clout in internship and job placement.
For something cheaper but with perhaps not quite the placement power nationally, check out your local community colleges and trade schools for possible programs in audio engineering and production.
G.
masteringhouse
www.masteringhouse.com
Glen is spot on.
I've heard of a few negative comments on Full Sail (very expensive and kind of a McDonald's approach grinding out engineer burgers).
I recommend a well-rounded College education over an audio trade school.
I've heard of a few negative comments on Full Sail (very expensive and kind of a McDonald's approach grinding out engineer burgers).
I recommend a well-rounded College education over an audio trade school.
you want a career...what do you want to do? record music? what kind? audio design? sound for picture? live sound?
Specify. There are so many ways to go and most of it is up to you and how much you put into it and how you plan for it. School is probably not a smart choice $-wise unless it's a four year deal or unless you or your rents are loaded. I'm sure you can get something out of full sail...just is it worth it? Not really, from what i've seen of the graduates...and that's of any program...4 year included...
The great thing about today is you can start doing it pretty much now. Not to sound like a grandpa but it took me 2.5 years to save to get my 8 track 5050 and mackie and some mics.
Stop asking and start doing. It really is that easy.
Mike
Specify. There are so many ways to go and most of it is up to you and how much you put into it and how you plan for it. School is probably not a smart choice $-wise unless it's a four year deal or unless you or your rents are loaded. I'm sure you can get something out of full sail...just is it worth it? Not really, from what i've seen of the graduates...and that's of any program...4 year included...
The great thing about today is you can start doing it pretty much now. Not to sound like a grandpa but it took me 2.5 years to save to get my 8 track 5050 and mackie and some mics.
Stop asking and start doing. It really is that easy.
Mike
Like Mike said: Specify
There's just way too many fields that require "specialized" talent.
I went to The Art Institute of Seattle for Music/Video business. (this was back in the early '90's before they separated the programs out) at the height of the "Grunge" scene in the Northwest. Got a bunch of connections and "life experience" out of it, but as far as "hands on learning".....next to zip.
In fact one of the instructors told the class on the first day, "everything you're paying me to show you, can be found at the local library if you know how to look for it." This was in 1991, long before google.
Would have been better off getting my AA from the local community college and spending my money on gear and learning how to use it on my own.
A friend of mine is a Conservatory of Recording Arts alum from Arizona, currently working in LA. He said the same thing. Ya, he got pro tools certified, but could have got the same certification on his own for less money and got a more rounded education to fall back on if he ever loses his job at the production house he's at.
The job placement programs they offer: you go where the job is for whatever it is. If a job pops up in BumF@%#Egypt, ID for a 2 year, part-time, paid intern spot at min. wage, and your from Virginia. You either say Yes or No. If you say no, it's not the schools fault. They helped get you the job and you turned it down. They lived up to their obligation. Now you're on your own to find something else or wait for them to offer something else.
Find a smaller, local studio and try to get on as an UNPAID intern. Keep your mouth closed unless your spoken to directly, stay out of the way, learn to make the most badass coffee and clean a bathroom spotless with a smile.
But keep your eyes and ears open and absorb all you possibly can.
I say smaller studio, because larger, known studios, generally have waiting lists of "educated" people trying to get an unpaid spot.
Or bag all that, get some gear, learn how to use it and start building you own "street cred", business, studio, etc.
As for education, study business/marketing/etc. The bottom line is always money. How to get it, and how to use it in the most productive/profitable way.
Just my 2 cents
Bruce
There's just way too many fields that require "specialized" talent.
I went to The Art Institute of Seattle for Music/Video business. (this was back in the early '90's before they separated the programs out) at the height of the "Grunge" scene in the Northwest. Got a bunch of connections and "life experience" out of it, but as far as "hands on learning".....next to zip.
In fact one of the instructors told the class on the first day, "everything you're paying me to show you, can be found at the local library if you know how to look for it." This was in 1991, long before google.
Would have been better off getting my AA from the local community college and spending my money on gear and learning how to use it on my own.
A friend of mine is a Conservatory of Recording Arts alum from Arizona, currently working in LA. He said the same thing. Ya, he got pro tools certified, but could have got the same certification on his own for less money and got a more rounded education to fall back on if he ever loses his job at the production house he's at.
The job placement programs they offer: you go where the job is for whatever it is. If a job pops up in BumF@%#Egypt, ID for a 2 year, part-time, paid intern spot at min. wage, and your from Virginia. You either say Yes or No. If you say no, it's not the schools fault. They helped get you the job and you turned it down. They lived up to their obligation. Now you're on your own to find something else or wait for them to offer something else.
Find a smaller, local studio and try to get on as an UNPAID intern. Keep your mouth closed unless your spoken to directly, stay out of the way, learn to make the most badass coffee and clean a bathroom spotless with a smile.
But keep your eyes and ears open and absorb all you possibly can.
I say smaller studio, because larger, known studios, generally have waiting lists of "educated" people trying to get an unpaid spot.
Or bag all that, get some gear, learn how to use it and start building you own "street cred", business, studio, etc.
As for education, study business/marketing/etc. The bottom line is always money. How to get it, and how to use it in the most productive/profitable way.
Just my 2 cents
Bruce
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
I didn't notice the precise wording the first time around, but now that I've caught it, I feel it illustrates a very important point about this (a)vocation.
Regardless of where you get your "education" - school or street, mentored or self taught - I believe it's important to remember the *engineering* part of the title "audio engineering", and that there is a subtle but important difference between the definitions of audio engineering and making music recordings.
Recently there was a discussion on this BBS where one member, fresh out of audio production school, said he didn't know what polarity was, and didn't care. Whose fault that is - the school's the teacher's or the student's - I don't know, but for anybody seasoned in this field, you didn't know whether to laugh or cry at that statement, it was so preposterous.
One can argue until their face turns blue that such technical "esoterica" is not really important; you just sit in front of your DAW and let the computer worry about that stuff. You just push the music around until it sounds good, and that's all you need to know. These folks have obviously never actually had to work in a real live studio where you can spend as much time in front of a soldering station as you do in front of a DAW, or where you don't have the luxury of getting on an Internet BBS and waiting three days to get a consensus answer of dubious quality to your problem when your client will be back from lunch in 40 minutes and you have to figure out all by yourself why you're getting that strange noise here or that gizmo has stopped working there.
Or, like in another thread here, without understanding the boring-sounding but fundamental concepts of things like line-level voltages analog-to-digital conversion, and that the word "decibel" or "dB" by itself is meaningless unless you distinctly know what "decibel" really means and which kind of decibel you're dealing with, you chances of a true fundamental understanding of gain structure are almost nil. Why is that important? Because knowing how to properly control and manipulate gain structure is one of those mythical, alleged "secrets of the pros" that can make the difference between an amateur-sounding production and a professional one.
While most people that come to these boards call what we do more an art than a science - and in many ways it is - when the rubber hits the road in the real business world, if you don't fully understand the fundamental science - the engineering - that forms the structure around which the art is constructed, you'll never have more than half of the education you really need to succeed as an "audio engineer."
The reason I bring all this up is because I believe one needs to measure themselves up before they make the decision to take the plunge. There are a whole lot of musicians out there that are all about the creative side, and very good at it, but who don't stand a chance as engineers because they just don't incline to the technical side. The same in reverse; there are those who are killer electronics engineers, but just will never have either the ear or the creative bent to make much headway captaining the big desk or DAW.
If you think you have a good balance between the left and right sides of your brain, but you just need the education, go for it through whatever means works best for you; school or street, mentored or self-taught. If, however, you're of the illusion that this gig is only about enjoying all the pretty blinking lights on one side, or only about making pretty music on the other side, then this might not be the gig for you.
G.
guitarmagic
New member
I'm a current student at LARS. So far everyone is right 100%. I came to the school to get experience on gear that i would never in a life time dream about touching. Before you sign up for the school they tell you straight up: If you come to school and do the minimum just to pass you'll never get anywhere. They teach you the fundamentals and than it's all up to you to take it to the next level. What you get from the school is what you put into it. Glen is right, don't forget about the engineering part. I've been in school for 2 months and i love it. They've taught all the technical stuff so far but it's rarely tested on. The school wants the students to pass. That said i know some guys in the school with no background or that think they can just pass the tests and they'll be a good engineer. That is completely wrong. Sure they can press record and capture something but it won't be any better than someone recording in their basement. If i ask these guys questions on something that was briefly mentioned they won't even know what it is and usually it's something very important to becoming an engineer.
The career guys are really good, they'll find you great internships and help you with jobs many years after you've graduated. But if you screw up in one way or another to ruin their rep, they'll forget all about you.
Anyways i don't regret it at all going to the school because it's a great experience for me and i'm not just floating through. If you do decide to go to a recording school make sure you put in that extra effort and research on your own. Stay on boards like this it will help you a lot. Everyone here is right though if you can go to a college or something so you have something to fall back on.
The career guys are really good, they'll find you great internships and help you with jobs many years after you've graduated. But if you screw up in one way or another to ruin their rep, they'll forget all about you.
Anyways i don't regret it at all going to the school because it's a great experience for me and i'm not just floating through. If you do decide to go to a recording school make sure you put in that extra effort and research on your own. Stay on boards like this it will help you a lot. Everyone here is right though if you can go to a college or something so you have something to fall back on.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
That's pretty much it right there.
In fact, that last sentence applies to just about anything in this world, doesn't it?
G.
guitarmagic
New member
Ya thats true 100%. But i guess people think by going to a trade school there taking the easy way out so it doesnt apply.
A good way to determine if you want to go into the "recording engineer" part of the music is to get to know the engineers at your local studio's and see if they will let you intern with them. (Not sure how much experience that you already have, just making the assumption that you know what you are doing) Because it is long hours, frustrating work, and yet people like myself love it. And once you do that for a while then you can see if you want to go into that part of the field. Because it is not for everyone. Just trying to give you a brief summary of the reality.
Talldog
Pain in the ass
Berkley School of Music in Boston had a great program in the 80's when I was around. (I assume they still do but I've been here in Cleveland for the last 18 years). You couldn't swing a dead cat in studios in Boston or NY without hitting one. They had a great intern program. That said, the first thing I was taught was "learn how to make good coffee" cause that's what you'll be doing to start.
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