Can't we all "just get along"!

S

Soundmind??

New member
I was surfing recording studion sites the other day and something really got my attention. On some high end studio sites if found Behringer, BBI, MXL listed among Manly, Neve, Avalon, and other super high end gear. Why all the negativity toward these products? I know they are not the backbone of these studios, but evidently they are good for something....any comments?
 
Some cheap gear works great in the right situations. Most objections, especially with Behringer, are really about business practices.
 
I have Behringer headphone amps. I really just don't like their business practices. I won't use Monster Cable, for the same reasons.
 
what does it matter about attitude??noones got your ears so if folks dont like what you use, F em. I dont like behringer because I feel like their products are crap. That sums it up for me. I dont care about bus. practices. I care about the product. to me...behri=junk
 
While I haven't always held this position, I've come to the opinion (based upon a few friendly debates) that I should go product by product. I like my Beri headphone amp, and the B-Control I have is great as well. The prices were good and I feel that I paid for what they're worth.

I haven't specifically compared any other Beri gear to anything else, but I wouldn't say that "All" Beri gear is crap and shouldn't be used ever, and honestly I don't know anything about their business practices, but if I needed a mixer and a Beri mixer fit in the same price range as a mackie, or a soundcraft, then I'd have to compare them and pick the one that had the features and sound. If the Beri one sucked then I'll say it, but until then, I'll try hold of on my judgement...

Jacob
 
I guess I'm getting along, because I've got a Behringer ADA8000 sitting in my rack right next to an Avalon AD2022. They both do exactly what I want and expect them to do. I've got Behringer ECM8000's and Neumann KM184's, Behringer VAMP II and a Line6 Pod Pro. Mostly, I'm unimpressed by Behringer mixers, I prefer Yamahas for cheap. But I'm not real excited about it all. Every good project studio is made up of cheap gear that works, and a few carefully selected pieces of high end gear. I can't afford eveything high-end. I got over it.
They don't love my Epiphone guitars and my AKG dynamic mics, either, but I'm doing just fine. And we're ultimately all even, 'cause I don't love your Ibanez guitars, your SM57's,your ART preamps, or your Mackie mixers, either. But I don't bust people's balls about it. If you are happy with your gear, fine. I recommend to noobs the cheap gear that works for me, hand out an occasional reality check, and let the chips fall wherever they will. See, we do get along, mostly. People are still entitled to their opinions.-Richie
 
I would have to agree, and also say that Epiphone makes a mean guitar, even if it doesnt have the gibson name, my dot is a cheap guitar, $420 at the time, and while it's not going to hold out as well as a gibson its great. Same goes with some cheap equipment, when used right, its good, sure you can do better with more expensive hardware but for a project studio everything is not going to be pro quality. Things that mater the most like mics and pre's, sure, they are worth spending some extra money on but when it all boils down to it, its a project studio so depending on how serious someone wants to get with it then thats what they spend and buy, but of course in the low cost sector there are plenty of better options over others so you do have to be careful with some purchases, like my behringer mixer, depending on how I set the levels can sound incredibly noisey or just pretty much quiet.



-jeffrey
 
What kind of business practices have engendered hostility toward Behri? I have a "virtualizer pro," my first reverb device, and still whip it out now and then.

My studio has a mix of stuff bought when I had no money and some money, when I knew nothing and when I knew slightly more, when I had little experience and more experience, and it reflects all of those times in my life. Cheap gear and crappy gear (no neccessarily the same thing), mid-range and quality gear, and even a couple of things I wouldn't trade for a more expesive model even if I could afford it, including my roland rd-100.

Those of you who have all high-end gear, god bless ya, but those of you with cheap crap, god bless ya more! :)
 
tc4b said:
What kind of business practices have engendered hostility toward Behri? :)
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What they are known to do is take designs of other companies and just blatantly copy them. If you look at their old mixers from 5 or 6 years ago and the Mackie mixers from that time, they are the same thing. (different color scheme) They can sell their stuff for less because they don't have to pay back the R&D and even some of the tooling because they are made in the same Asian factories as the original.
 
Farview said:
What they are known to do is take designs of other companies and just blatantly copy them. If you look at their old mixers from 5 or 6 years ago and the Mackie mixers from that time, they are the same thing. (different color scheme) They can sell their stuff for less because they don't have to pay back the R&D and even some of the tooling because they are made in the same Asian factories as the original.
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exactly, basically they just reverse engineer a product, slap their own name on it and sell it as their own.
 
MessianicDreams said:
exactly, basically they just reverse engineer a product, slap their own name on it and sell it as their own.
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Like Huey Lewis did to the ghostbusters song?
 
What kind of business practices have engendered hostility toward Behri? I have a "virtualizer pro," my first reverb device, and still whip it out now and then.
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I also use one of these and it's great , along with an Ultradyne pro which i use all the time.

Behringer are no worse for backward engineering a product or using ready distributed board designs than any other company. Look at the turbo charger , haw many companies copied the original design of that ? look at home audio equipment, low end panasonic gear is relabelled and sold under rca , genexxa , technics etc etc .

Chrysler relabelled the Mitsubishi 3000GT as a dodge stealth , they also labelled a Mercedes vehice as the crossfire.

Pontiac took the toyota Matrix and labelled it the pontiac vibe.

Nvidia make a Geforce card , suddenly Asus , MSI , BFG all have a Geforce card , and they almost all have the same reference board design.

I mean holy shit who invented the potato chip ? suddenly tons of other companies sell potato chips ;)

Its very common business practice , its the way the world is and not something to get bent out of shape about. It's what happens when something that sells well emerges and another business takes advantage of it.

Its called "the bandwagon"
 
cortexx said:
I also use one of these and it's great , along with an Ultradyne pro which i use all the time.

Behringer are no worse for backward engineering a product or using ready distributed board designs than any other company. Look at the turbo charger , haw many companies copied the original design of that ? look at home audio equipment, low end panasonic gear is relabelled and sold under rca , genexxa , technics etc etc .

Chrysler relabelled the Mitsubishi 3000GT as a dodge stealth , they also labelled a Mercedes vehice as the crossfire.

Pontiac took the toyota Matrix and labelled it the pontiac vibe.

Nvidia make a Geforce card , suddenly Asus , MSI , BFG all have a Geforce card , and they almost all have the same reference board design.

I mean holy shit who invented the potato chip ? suddenly tons of other companies sell potato chips ;)

Its very common business practice , its the way the world is and not something to get bent out of shape about. It's what happens when something that sells well emerges and another business takes advantage of it.

Its called "the bandwagon"
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I'm not a hundred % sure of all your examples, but I don't think it's unethical to make a product like one offered by another company, nor is it unethical to rebadge a product from one section of your company for another section. Some of your examples are companies that take a look at a competitors product and make their own that's similar (competition)...I think it would be unethical to go buy a car, take it apart and copy each part, put it all together and then sell them. Mercedes and Chrysler are owned by the same people, and they have the privilage of selling whatever they make under any name they want to because it's all the same company.

Beri and Mackie are not owned by the same people...it would be unethical for beri to copy Mackie's board piece by peice...

Jacob
 
cortexx said:
Nvidia make a Geforce card , suddenly Asus , MSI , BFG all have a Geforce card , and they almost all have the same reference board design.
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For the record, Nvidia pushes the technology and everyone else manufactures the actual hardware. They aren't "copying" anyone, merely fullfilling their agreement with Nvidia to produce their products, and sometimes adding slight differences based on their contractual agreements. An Nvidia 6600GT is an Nvidia 6600GT regardless whether MSI, Rosewill, or BFG make the actual card.
 
cortexx said:
I also use one of these and it's great , along with an Ultradyne pro which i use all the time.

Behringer are no worse for backward engineering a product or using ready distributed board designs than any other company. Look at the turbo charger , haw many companies copied the original design of that ? look at home audio equipment, low end panasonic gear is relabelled and sold under rca , genexxa , technics etc etc .

Chrysler relabelled the Mitsubishi 3000GT as a dodge stealth , they also labelled a Mercedes vehice as the crossfire.

Pontiac took the toyota Matrix and labelled it the pontiac vibe.

Nvidia make a Geforce card , suddenly Asus , MSI , BFG all have a Geforce card , and they almost all have the same reference board design.

I mean holy shit who invented the potato chip ? suddenly tons of other companies sell potato chips ;)

Its very common business practice , its the way the world is and not something to get bent out of shape about. It's what happens when something that sells well emerges and another business takes advantage of it.

Its called "the bandwagon"
Click to expand...

I believe that in all the examples you cite, the companies involved either licensed the rights to use another's technology (NVidia and card manufacturers), were venture partners (like Chrysler and Mitsubishi where Chrysler owned a piece of Mitsubishi, or General Motors and Toyota where there were joint development arrangements), or were simply different divisions of the same company (Chrysler and Mercedes). As such they had the legal right to use/share the technology and related intellectual property.

The beef about Behringer is that they have apparently used/copied others' technology and intellectual property without permission. As a result, they have been sued by, among others, Roland (Boss pedals), Aphex, Alesis and Mackie. Most recently the FCC proposed a $1 million fine against Behringer for reportedly marketing 50 models of unauthorized radio frequency devices, specifically Class B digital audio music devices such as mixing consoles, dynamic processors and microphone preamps.
 
Soundmind?? said:
Why all the negativity toward these products?
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I dunno. Because people generally tend to hold negative feelings towards stuff that breaks down and sounds like crap even when it doesn't?

.
 
pohaku said:
I believe that in all the examples you cite, the companies involved either licensed the rights to use another's technology (NVidia and card manufacturers), were venture partners (like Chrysler and Mitsubishi where Chrysler owned a piece of Mitsubishi, or General Motors and Toyota where there were joint development arrangements), or were simply different divisions of the same company (Chrysler and Mercedes). As such they had the legal right to use/share the technology and related intellectual property.

The beef about Behringer is that they have apparently used/copied others' technology and intellectual property without permission. As a result, they have been sued by, among others, Roland (Boss pedals), Aphex, Alesis and Mackie. Most recently the FCC proposed a $1 million fine against Behringer for reportedly marketing 50 models of unauthorized radio frequency devices, specifically Class B digital audio music devices such as mixing consoles, dynamic processors and microphone preamps.
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting this. The examples posted aren't really along the same lines as what Behringer is doing/has done and you shed some decent light on it.
 
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