Can't Say

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NotThatBright

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I recently got stereo overhead mics and I've been screwing with the placement of them, trying to eliminate phasing and get my snare and kick in the middle while still getting relatively even sound levels out of both mics (ORTF setup). If anyone can tell how close to the middle my snare and kick are in the overheads, that'd be a big help. The individual drum mics for the snare and kick are right in the middle, of course.

I'd appreciate any comments on the mix. I'd been used to mixing stuff I recorded in mono, and this sounds like it might be too bright to me. I'm not sure if it actually is or if I'm just not used to stereo yet.

Kick drum level is also something I'm unsure about.

This is a cover of an ALL song. Drums need tightening, I know. Thanks!

Link is fixed:

https://soundcloud.com/user92696274096/cant-say/s-dTuyM

UPDATE:

New mix- new vocal track, louder kick drum, bass guitar boosted at 200Hz, overhead mics turned down a bit.

https://soundcloud.com/user92696274096/cant-say2/s-Nxe3y

ANOTHER UPDATE:

Even heavier kick drum, reverb over entire track.

https://soundcloud.com/user92696274096/cant-say-rvb/s-pGLfV
 
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Sorry about that, guys... I must have had my head up my ass. Link is fixed.
 
Overall I think that your rhythm playing is tighter here than on previous tracks.
I liked the backing vocals.

The kick beater was too snappy and the rest didn't have much low end.
 
As usual, I really like your performance, NTB. The bassplaying rocks, and I'm not just saying that because you complained that no-one ever comments on your awesome bassplaying. :D

I agree with Schwarzenjaeger (damn that fecker for picking a difficult username) that you're lacking the bottom end, and you seem to have lost a bit of the sheen you were getting.

:Serious Head On: I would ditch the ORTF setup. Throw it out and use the Recorderman setup. I think it will suit what you want to achieve much more successfully. I think your cymbals dominate a little too much and it strikes me that you're expecting your overheads to be cymbal mics rather than kit mics. When setting your mics up I would put your first overhead (L/H as you look at it from the drum stool) directly above your snare and pointing vertically at it. I would set the height at slightly above the edges of your crash cymbals - a few inches at most, depending on how prominent you want your cymbals to be (because the volume of your cymbals is at their lowest when the mic is level with the edge of your cymbals), then measure the distance to your kick beater contact spot. I would use this to set the distance of your R/H overhead from the kick beater, then position it to get an equalised representation of your biggest rack tom and your floor tom. If you're lucky, the position won't interfere with your playing, but you can adjust it from there to make it workable.

Do this for me, NTB. You're my only hope.
 
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It's a combination between the greatest Austrian (Or man?) who ever lived, my last name and the way that American's would always write my last name on letters.
 
First things first...

"SPELT???"

WE SPEAK AMERICAN IN HERE, GENTLEMEN.

Okay! Now that we got the housekeeping out of the way...

Schw... said:
Overall I think that your rhythm playing is tighter here than on previous tracks.
I liked the backing vocals.

The kick beater was too snappy and the rest didn't have much low end.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the comments. I agree with all of them, especially the obvious omission (given the mention of the backing vocals)... the lead vocal sucked. As luck would have it, I have just returned from the end-of-workweek late-afternoon soiree at the bar, and I was in the mood to yell in the basement, so I just recorded a better (relatively) lead vocal and made a new mix. I also boosted the bass at 200Hz, increased the kick, and, to Bubba's suggestion, turned down the overheads to quiet the cymbals a bit.

Bubba said:
As usual, I really like your performance, NTB. The bassplaying rocks, and I'm not just saying that because you complained that no-one ever comments on your awesome bassplaying.
Click to expand...

Now this is a good comment! Schwarzenyeager, you could learn from this guy.

Bubba said:
I agree with Schwarzenjaeger (damn that fecker for picking a difficult username) that you're lacking the bottom end, and you seem to have lost a bit of the sheen you were getting.
Click to expand...

Hopefully the new mix took care of this.

His name is a pain in the ass to type. I'm just going to start calling him Bill.

Bubba said:
:Serious Head On: I would ditch the ORTF setup. Throw it out and use the Recorderman setup. I think it will suit what you want to achieve much more successfully. I think your cymbals dominate a little too much and it strikes me that you're expecting your overheads to be cymbal mics rather than kit mics. When setting your mics up I would put your first overhead (L/H as you look at it from the drum stool) directly above your snare and pointing vertically at it. I would set the height at slightly above the edges of your crash cymbals - a few inches at most, depending on how prominent you want your cymbals to be (because the volume of your cymbals is at their lowest when the mic is level with the edge of your cymbals), then measure the distance to your kick beater contact spot. I would use this to set the distance of your L/H overhead from the kick beater, then position it to get an equalised representation of your biggest rack tom and your floor tom. If you're lucky, the position won't interfere with your playing, but you can adjust it from there to make it workable.
Click to expand...
I will google it and see what it requires. I wanted to try something besides ORTL (whatever freaking order those letters go in), anyway, so if I have the items, space, etc that are necessary to do it, I'll try Recorderman this weekend. Thanks for the explanation.
Bubba said:
Do this for me, NTB. You're my only hope.
Click to expand...

You can always count on me, as long as you aren't asking me to meet deadlines, show up on time every day, be respectful...

...let's just say you can count on me for this! :)

Thanks for the time, guys. I posted the new mix at the top... if you get a chance, tell me if you think it's any better. Good day!
 
You call me Bill once and I'll never compliment your bass playing. :spank: You can call me dog-in-door or Jäger.

I'll have a listen to your new mix when I'm on something that can produce frequencies below 150Hz.
 
Schwarzenyaeger said:
I'll have a listen to your new mix when I'm on something that can produce frequencies below 150Hz.
Click to expand...

Like a fat girl? The last one that I was on produced a lot of low frequencies. I think she had a cold.

Typing hyphens is annoying, I'll go with Jager. But I can't help you with the umlaut.
 
Your updated mix is very good! The only thing that strikes me about it is that everything feels very in-your-face. Have you tried adding some more reverb to space things out a bit?

On a side note, that's a cool choice for a cover. ALL is already an obscure band as it is, and the song "Can't Say" as far as I know, is only on the hard-to-find "Dot" single. Good cover!
 
HRmusic90 said:
Your updated mix is very good! The only thing that strikes me about it is that everything feels very in-your-face. Have you tried adding some more reverb to space things out a bit?

On a side note, that's a cool choice for a cover. ALL is already an obscure band as it is, and the song "Can't Say" as far as I know, is only on the hard-to-find "Dot" single. Good cover!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the listen and comment. I'm impressed you knew the Dot single! Complete with "A Boy Named Sue" on it. :)

I loved all the incarnations of ALL, though the Scott Reynolds years would have to be my favorite. Always thought this song was wasted as a B-side on a single.

Do you mean reverb on the entire song? Right now I just have it on the voice. I can't sing for shit, but I can't let that stop me... or the terrorists win. :)
 
NotThatBright said:
Thanks for the listen and comment. I'm impressed you knew the Dot single! Complete with "A Boy Named Sue" on it. :)

I loved all the incarnations of ALL, though the Scott Reynolds years would have to be my favorite. Always thought this song was wasted as a B-side on a single.

Do you mean reverb on the entire song? Right now I just have it on the voice. I can't sing for shit, but I can't let that stop me... or the terrorists win. :)
Click to expand...

I actually still have it in my CD collection! (And if you're interested, a good quality scan of the cover is on Album Art Exchange.) I always thought Scott Reynolds was their best singer and lyricist.

As for the reverb, yeah, reverb for the whole song, or even try a couple different ones for the different instruments.
 
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HRmusic90 said:
I actually still have it in my CD collection! (And if you're interested, a good quality scan of the cover is on Album Art Exchange.) I always thought Scott Reynolds was their best singer and lyricist.

As for the reverb, yeah, reverb for the whole song, or even try a couple different ones for the different instruments.
Click to expand...

A friend of mine had that single when I was a kid. Back then I dubbed a cassette from it. I already had the Percolater album with Dot on it, so I didn't get the single.

I never realized how clever Reynolds' lyrics were until I got older. He's great in his other bands, too. The second Goodbye Harry album and the first Pavers album are classics.

I don't have the skill to be covering All songs... I'm a novice drummer, don't know any guitar chords and am just decent on bass... and they get pretty tricky with each instrument. I come up with remedial versions of each part so I can play them.

I'll add some reverb and see how it sounds. Thanks.
 
I like the second mix a lot better, the guitars are more separated. The kit sounds better, too. :) Still a little lacking low down, but pretty good nonetheless. :thumbs up:
 
Bubba po said:
I like the second mix a lot better, the guitars are more separated. The kit sounds better, too. :) Still a little lacking low down, but pretty good nonetheless. :thumbs up:
Click to expand...
I agree with this.

The bass boost needs to happen more around 70-80Hz.
 
Thank you Bubba and Dog-in-door. I jacked up the kick some more and threw on a little reverb.

I played drums using a metronome for the first time the other day. Turns out it's a big help and a time saver, not at all the nuisance I expected. This will be my last song with an unintentional variable pace. No more rhythms that stagger like hobos and jerk like fishing rods!
 
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