Cannot Squash The Vocals Enough

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justinm.

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Hey! Sorry if this is not a good place for this question.

I'm recording with a Tascam 2488 and a RNC compressor...that's basically all that I've got. I really hate the sound of the vocals...I don't mind everything else that much. I cannot get the vocals the way I'd like, the compressor helps but not enough. I hate the sound of the Tascams compressor when used on the vocals, it sounds so congested like I've got a cold or my hand is over my mouth.

I'd really like it to sound good enough to release on a CD. Though I cannot limit the vocals enough, or get them clear enough. Can anyone advise me on how to go about this. I'm aware I probably could use some extra equipment.

Help please!
 
If the RNC doesn't do it for you - & let's face it: it only helps - you'll need to work on your vocal performance & mic technique. Compressors really should be used a little to deal with aberrant dynamics in a perfromance not as a fix/treatment to make it good.
Lot's of folk use compressors because they add colour &/or effect the sound like Joe Meek did but there's more to it than that as Joe knew - he just happened to be a compression & reverb & anything else that could be added for uniqueness/weirdness/difference nut.
Do some searches on compression within the forum & you'll find some excellent advise, recommendations and the obviously required elucidation such as in here http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=253141&highlight=compression Don't fret though - many folk are pointed towards compression as the quick fix/magic woofle dust element in mixing & eventually find that's it's not the silver bullet it's made out to be.
 
Have you tried using both of the comps in stages -one to get partly there, the other to finish? The idea is to lighten the load on each, maybe one does in-and-out fast on the peaks, the other the slower rides.
justinm. said:
... I hate the sound of the Tascams compressor when used on the vocals, it sounds so congested like I've got a cold or my hand is over my mouth.
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Maybe (and just a guess)... it's too much, and leave a bit of attack in there? There's 'smooth, but then there's lifeless.;)
 
The problem has to be at the source. A good vocal track shouldn't need a compressor to "save" it. The 2488's compressors aren't that bad anyway. If they change the sound to the point that it changes your actual vocal sound (you said they sound congested), then you must be putting way too much compression on them.

Get it sounding as good as possible at the source.
 
justinm. said:
I'm recording with a Tascam 2488 and a RNC compressor...that's basically all that I've got.
Click to expand...
You have more than that. You also have to have at least one microphone, one room in which to place it and one voice to actually record ;) :). Those three links in your recording chain are going to be as - if not more - important than your model of compressor and HDR in determining your sound.

G.
 
What sort of mic are you using - dynamic or condenser?

Dynamic mics tend to lack a lot of the crispness you hear in vocal recordings made in studios unless you're running through a big-arse tube channel strip first that can amplify the signal and sweeten the sound.

If you're already using a condenser mic then I'm at a loss as to why your recordings are sounding so muffled.

Dags
 
maybe try putting multiple compressors in the chain.. or re-recording with a little more compression... or the vocalist could be the problem (more than likely)
 
Dags said:
What sort of mic are you using - dynamic or condenser?

Dynamic mics tend to lack a lot of the crispness you hear in vocal recordings made in studios unless you're running through a big-arse tube channel strip first that can amplify the signal and sweeten the sound.

If you're already using a condenser mic then I'm at a loss as to why your recordings are sounding so muffled.

Dags
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Good dynamics don't "lack the crispness you hear in studios" -- Plenty of studios use dynamics for vocals all the time. And tube preamps have even less to do with it. Not that the preamp isn't important - But that's with any mic. Not just dynamics (or condensers, or ribbons, etc.).

If he has a condenser mic, that doesn't say much of anything either. I've heard PLENTY of crappy (really crappy) sounding condensers out there. A "muffled" sounding recording can be made with more condensers than you can shake a stick at.
 
i dunno about you guys but i love compressing the shit out of vocal tracks. i really like the sound of using compression as an effect on vocals, but i guess it depends on the music. and of course it has to be a good take for it to work right, but shit i'm definitely not one to use gentle compression on a vocal take. but that's just me! ;)
 
justinm. said:
Hey! Sorry if this is not a good place for this question.

I'm recording with a Tascam 2488 and a RNC compressor...that's basically all that I've got. I really hate the sound of the vocals...I don't mind everything else that much. I cannot get the vocals the way I'd like, the compressor helps but not enough. I hate the sound of the Tascams compressor when used on the vocals, it sounds so congested like I've got a cold or my hand is over my mouth.

I'd really like it to sound good enough to release on a CD. Though I cannot limit the vocals enough, or get them clear enough. Can anyone advise me on how to go about this. I'm aware I probably could use some extra equipment.

Help please!
Click to expand...

Use the Parallel Compression technique. This is the best way to get intelligable vocal tracks.
 
The way you get that super compressed vocal sound is with Serial compression. That means using two compressors one after the other.

Use the first one to tame the overall dynamic range with about a 2-8 ratio and a few db's of compression, hopefuly around 8 dbs or less. The RNC is great at this step. So is any type of good transparent compression.

Then have the next compressor or limiter with a 10-20 ratio take a few more db's off the top. Look-ahead digital software limiters work great for this. So do nice analog limiters that you can really slam.

If you don't have two compressors to use during mixdown then track with the first level of compression and limit during the mixdown. Or re-record the track afterwards with two separate passes going through each stage of the compression.

If all this sucks too much edge out of the vocal then you can try mixing in the orginal dry vocal for the Parallel technique or mix in a mult with some distortion and/or exciter, chorus, delay or whatever helps give you back that energy.

Obviously the better the vocal is tracked in terms of performance and fidelity then the less heavy handed you need to be with the above methods.

The exact same method also works great on bass.
 
Justinm - some questions;

what is the entire signal chain?

What is the room?

If you record something else with the same setup, a guitar or something, does it sound OK?

How close to the mic are you singing?

Are you using a pop filter?

You said you "don't mind everything else that much". What is everything else and what's wrong with it?
 
sounds like the performer/performance is the issue as opposed to your compressors...........

not sure how in-depth you know compression and the purpose of.......

but perhaps the performer was never in a good climate to get a decent recording from to begin with.... if you squashin the vocals i'd assume you applyin a pretty harsh amount of compression to your recording as is, try messing around more with your panametric eq's to adjust some of the hi's, mid's and low's but not necessarily the gain, and then compress little by little to help mesh it into the track a bit...... and where all crispness fails, a touch of reverb won't hurt at all unless you hurtin yaself......
 
zed32 said:
i dunno about you guys but i love compressing the shit out of vocal tracks. i really like the sound of using compression as an effect on vocals, but i guess it depends on the music. and of course it has to be a good take for it to work right, but shit i'm definitely not one to use gentle compression on a vocal take. but that's just me! ;)
Click to expand...
...
me too :)
 
Thanks everyone so much for replying. I appreciate it more than I can say.

I use a condenser mic for the vocals.

mic into amp
amp output into RNC input
RNC output into amp input
amp into Tascam

I just record in my basement...nothing special about the room, except it is large enough for me to use everything.

Someone mentioned using a limiter...no one ever told me about that before. Could that have anything to do with it?
 
All the shot-in-the-dark guesses we could ever make won't mean anything unless we're actually listening to something. Post a clip, and I'm sure people will be able to give much more productive advice. You should never not be able to compress it enough..... sounds like there's some other serious problem.
 
RAMI said:
You might want to simplify that chain. That's alot of stages to put one mic through.
Click to expand...

:confused:

A mic into a pre with a compressor inserted, and then off to a recorder is pretty common.
 
boingoman said:
:confused:

A mic into a pre with a compressor inserted, and then off to a recorder is pretty common.
Click to expand...

Yes, you're right. I didn't realize the RNC was being used as an insert. Makes sense now. I thought everything was in series with 2 amps involved.
 
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