Can improvement stop ?

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grimtraveller

grimtraveller

If only for a moment.....
If you've been mixing for years and you're vastly experienced, do you think it's possible to be so at the top of your game that you simply cannot get any better ?
 
I think you can get to the point where you are not improving. Doesn't mean you are bad. Since mixing is subjective in many ways, one persons mix may not be the best compared to another mix based on what the artist had in their head. We can take bass for an example, some artists want a heavy bass, others want it tamed and more subtle.

In summary, one could be sonically correct and still not have the best mix for that song based on what the artist wants.
 
Since mixing is completely subjective, getting "better" really tends to mean that you are more confident in your desicions and you have good workarounds for most problems that you might have.

I guess you can get to a point where you are completely comfortable with the stuff you tend to mix and aren't getting challenged anymore. At that point, it might be time to start trying to do genres that you are not as familiar with. It is really easy to get stuck doing similar types of music all the time, but music is so vast that you can always find something that you are unfamiliar with and will challenge you.
 
I can only guess of course, but hypothetically, I'd say, "no".

There are so many variables with how to approach even the simplest of projects like my own, that I can't imagine not continuing to learn at least some finer points as you go along. I do imagine though that as one progresses, the amount of new stuff they learn shrinks incrementally until maybe at some point, what they are improving upon is so subtle as to be lost on all but the most discerning listener.

I also think that it isn't a given that one improves simply through time and experience. I've been doing this for many years (wouldn't consider myself vastly experienced though), but I don't think I consistently improve each time out. Sometimes I seem to do worse! But overall, there is gradual improvement that I think I can detect when comparing old and new.
 
It just dawned on me that, once you reach a certain age, your body starts failing you, you cant hear as well, think your way through things as well and/or your personal esthetic becomes so dated that your mixes don't fit in with the "norm". That is probably the thing that happens. It's not that you actually get worse at doing it, your tools (ears) and sensibilities are what eventually fail you.
 
grimtraveller said:
If you've been mixing for years and you're vastly experienced, do you think it's possible to be so at the top of your game that you simply cannot get any better ?
Click to expand...

No, we can always learn! I'm 65 and I learn new stuff all the time. Not necessarily audio and mixing, but all kinds of stuff. As I see it, there are two aspects to mixing: One is getting good tones and a good balance, and the other is coming up with clever production ideas like alternating huge reverb with no reverb as with the sax solo in Funkytown. I'm certain people can improve both of these skills, at any skill level and at any age.

--Ethan
 
I have been mixing live and studio for over 35 years, every time I mix I learn something. Learning stops when you die, well in this life anyway :).

Alan.
 
I have been playing guitar for nearly fifty years. During the first,say, fifteen years, my playing skill developed rapidly. After that it slowed. During the last fifteen years it has plateaued.

This sense of reaching a plateau has accompanied other pursuits: my ability to draw plateaued when I was about sixteen. My skill at reading music flatlined at about twelve.

I am very tempted to say that improvement can stop. Ultimately, of course, it does stop. There are physical limits that constrain continuous improvement, and ultimately, of course, there is death that stops things dead in their tracks.

I think, though, that learning doesn't need to flatline. Even if my guitar playing doesn't get any better, I can still learn how to be more discerning, to be more tasteful and to be more musical in my playing.
 
gecko zzed said:
I have been playing guitar for nearly fifty years. During the first,say, fifteen years, my playing skill developed rapidly. After that it slowed. During the last fifteen years it has plateaued.

This sense of reaching a plateau has accompanied other pursuits: my ability to draw plateaued when I was about sixteen. My skill at reading music flatlined at about twelve.

I am very tempted to say that improvement can stop. Ultimately, of course, it does stop. There are physical limits that constrain continuous improvement, and ultimately, of course, there is death that stops things dead in their tracks.

I think, though, that learning doesn't need to flatline. Even if my guitar playing doesn't get any better, I can still learn how to be more discerning, to be more tasteful and to be more musical in my playing.
Click to expand...

Makes me wonder how Hendrix would have sounded today if he was still around.
 
I've got to the stage now where I'm individually hand polishing my 1s and 0s...:thumbs up::laughings:

I probably can't play guitar as fast as I could, but I can play it better now than ever before.. because it's never just a technical thing.

I imagine the same goes with mixing / producing... the more you do the more avenues and techniques open up for you, and when you've learnt everything there is to know, as if that's actually possible, then you'll invent new and better techniques...
 
grimtraveller said:
Do you learn something about the process ?
Click to expand...

Some of learning comes from solving little problems that show up, the fix often throws up new solutions. For example, you use the favourite compressor on the vocals, but in this particular case it just does not work, so use one that you would never dream of using or one you have never liked, does it work in this case.

The other learning is to always try something different and see what happens, the happy accidents that give you a different result.

Not forgetting the multitude of articles that I read about engineering and mixing and other peoples ideas that I will give a try to. The one that I love is putting a limiter before the compressor on a vocal track, I did this once for a particular vocalist and it really worked, I have used this a few times now, I would never have thought this would work but it does.

Alan.
 
I'll bet it's possible to get to the point where your own improvements are only noticeable to other audio engineers...
 
My mom thinks I'm perfect....

...so no need for improvement.

:laughings:
 
I often tell my students this example:

Even if I was the greatest guitarist in the world, I would still take lessons - but I would take lessons from vocalists, cellists, even drummers. There is something always available to learn from others and their experience. Even if I was the greatest teacher in the world, there are always going to be different and developing pedagogical schools that have something to offer.

When it comes to audio engineering, technology is always changing. In the past (and still now), mixing and mastering engineers had to contend with the needle jumping off the record if there was too much bass, that changed with tapes and CDs. Now, not only do we have to contend with the standard 2 channel stereo mix, but I have to mix in 5.1. And 5.1 surround may have been the standard for years, but now it's going to 7.1, 9.2, etc.... The fundamentals of mixing and mastering may be the same, but their are always developing techniques for our medium. Ambisonics using 2 and 4 channels rather than a sphere speaker array. That's something exciting to get into, and something I know nothing about.

We will always being being improving our skills, if we don't some 16 year old kid is going to be offering a product that is more advanced. As a counter argument, no one ever sees respected 16 year old orchestra conductors - the most respected have years of experience. A 16 musician may be technically advanced, but the emotional aspect has to be developed though years of living.

Andre Segovia stated that you must be at least 50 years old to play the Bach E major Suite BWV1006a (or maybe it was the Chaconne). OK, well, I performed BWV1006a at age 22. Ana Vidovic recorded it at age 16 at breakneck tempos. What Segovia was conveying, is that you must have years of heart-ache, love, yearning, etc... to perform this music with the emotion it deserves, not because it happens to be one of the hardest (if not the hardest).

Any engineer can technically mix a song perfectly, but they still needs years of life experience to get and expose the magic in a take.
 
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