Can I still come on here?

[dyuob]

Re: Re: Can I still come on here?

Ha, that's funny. Yep, I remeber back in the old days (December) when there wuz only 1 guy with the MR-8 here and 2 guys waiting for 'em from MF. We only had like, 2 threads and we had to walk 10 miles to get to school with no shoes...

I remember those days. I just want to say to everyone here, we were the first to get into this machine, and, more than likely, we will start to drift away, mainly because most of us are up and running, with very little problems. Anyway, I just want all of you to know, it has been a blast working thru this stuff with you all, I've learned quite a bit, and I will look back on all of this with great fondness. And who knows, the next few years, anytime anyone buys an MR 8, this will probably be a primary resource for them to learn, so, in a way, we gain a little immortality, even Pete!
Thanks again,
"hey man, remember the Coop"
(2 points if you know where that line came from...)

 

[junplugged]

I'm going on a limb to predict that this revolution in home recording technology combined with the internet is going to have a seriously negative impact on the recording industry as more and more bands realize that for what it costs to record an lp in rented studio time, they can buy the equipment, and produce cd's independently.

And, (this is a huge and loaded subject) Who needs those record company a-holes anyway?! You know all the f'd up dirty tricks they pull on the talent.... You gotta read all the s*** that the talent has to put up with b/c those a-holes in the so-called record companies have no way to tell what should and should'nt be released.... Oh, man. I gotta stop now, or this'll be the longest post ever.

just some stuff tho: you only get paid on 80% of sales, you don't get any pay for anything considered a 'promo' - that's anything thru a record club (buy 1 get 8 free - if your's is the free one, no pay), returns, long time before you actually get the $ from time of sale, And everybody else - everyone, from the mail room to the CEO and everyone in between, accountants, laywers, toilet cleaners, get paid first. you are last. You write the song, you may get the whole 7 friggin cents for the song sold on the CD - out of 1,600 cents it sells for, or you can get the negotiated down cents whatever that is under 7 cents.... Ok, time to take this over to the dungeon or some where.... I'm Pissed!

But a little more. So it takes a little longer for the talent to make his own CD. Well, while we'er at it, we're learning more and our talent is developing more. And, we get $7 out of $10 of OUR selling price of our CD. Sure the volume is about 1/1000th of the hits. but how many hits are there anyway? Oh, your CD isn't a hit, gee, your contract states that if you don't break even on the first release, IF you get to realse another, YOU still owe the record company the losses from the first before you see a penny from the second! That's 'cross colateralization' and they say you should negotitate it out of the record contract. Oh yea, me and how many laywers and what the hell pull do I have for that? Right.... Here's my ass just for you for the next 10 years.

Time - you want to be released from your contract b/c the rec. co. isn't promoting you anymore after your first CD was a commercial failure? No, we want you to sit and waste your next 9 years, b/c just in case you sell a few more CDs, we can have a return on our investment.... Even tho they are now selling for less than a buck with a hole drilled thru them somewhere in a rural state where the record stores have more room than in the cities.... (lower rent)

Ok. Too bad for all of you reading this that I can type.

off to the dungeon for me....

 

[bdbdbuck]

OK guys,
junplugged just came unglued.....Suffice it to say that I don't think there are too many of us here gonna make a killin. I DO think it's time for a shake-up in the music industry, and I hope it does come from guys like junplugged doin his own homerecording projects. It sounds like he's had a bad experience....or is that an understatement? If you take the time to read a lot of the contracts floating around on the web, record companies, publishers, and the like are charging like $1000 per hour for mundane tasks which I think should come out of their own profits, but if they have to "administer" anything regarding your music, that becomes a chargeback. It's a good way to NEVER see any money from your recorded music. The real money in this business comes from performing, so you might as well be selling your own cd's.


bd

 

[a12stringer]

Possibly the subject of another thread--but the key is for the musician to assume full control of his/her artistic output, from composition to publication, and recording, mixing, and mastering to duplication and distribution.

Not only will the musicians benefit, but their audiences will as well, because the "product" can be produced and sold at a lower price, the audiences will be able to afford the artists they want to support.

This means we need to educate ourselves about the process of copyrighting our work and retaining full control of those copyrights. Lennon and McCartney had once agreed that their music would never be used to make them corporate shills. Their manager at the time, Brian Epstein, agreed and that proviso was written into their contract with their publisher, Dick James. Dick James sold the copyrights to the Lennon-McCartney catalog in 1969 to Lew Grade. Lew Grade sold them in 1982 to Michael Jackson and ever since the contract Lennon and McCartney signed in 1962 has been about a valuable as a piece of toilet paper--the songs showing up in commercials for soda pop and athletic shoes.

The issue is full artistic control, a goal which was once only attainable once one had "made it," but now, thanks to digital technology, available to all.

 

[mrx]

And now that record companies and publishers are trying to classify all this as "work for hire", you really have nothing to lose doing it yourself.

Look at the Tragically Hip (I've noticed some Canadians on this forum who can probably explain them better) as an example of a band that has built a career on their own terms.

They built their own studio, have a loyal following that allows them to profitably tour, don't worry about writing for the radio, and use a record company simply for distribution.

 

[clifchamb]

my band is going for a liscensing agreement where we get to to our own recording and mastering and the record label simply pitches in for the distribution and mastering. I don't have any illusions about what to expect from this.





Hey at least "we will have a hit in Belgium!" (2pts if anyone can figure out what movie that is from)


clif

 

[Kelly5150]

And now that record companies and publishers are trying to classify all this as "work for hire", you really have nothing to lose doing it yourself.

Look at the Tragically Hip (I've noticed some Canadians on this forum who can probably explain them better) as an example of a band that has built a career on their own terms.

They built their own studio, have a loyal following that allows them to profitably tour, don't worry about writing for the radio, and use a record company simply for distribution.

I believe one of the first bands to do that was the Canadian band Triumph, each member handled a different part of the business and they reaped all the benefits.... smart move....

 

[Kramer]

I believe one of the first bands to do that was the Canadian band Triumph, each member handled a different part of the business and they reaped all the benefits.... smart move....

Now that is a rockin band.I just listened to "lay it on the line"...still stands up as killer music 20 years later.

 

[bdbdbuck]

I must agree that there are a FEW groups that have made an impact on their own, which shows that it CAN be done. The digital technology we have available does put it a little closer, but that "distribution" thing is out there looming. That can get Quite expensive! The fan base, on a national level, usually comes from air play, again not a cheap proposition. Everything has to build into a creshendo(spelling?) of sorts that pretty much has to happen before you start making the big bucks at your concerts.


bd

 

[Kelly5150]

Now that is a rockin band.I just listened to "lay it on the line"...still stands up as killer music 20 years later.

No doubt...
I've been a Triumph fan since way back in the "Blinding Light Show" era... Awesome band....

 

[mrx]

I must agree that there are a FEW groups that have made an impact on their own, which shows that it CAN be done.
bd

Remember when Dave Mathews Band started to break - they did everything themselves and record companies begging them to sign. I remember their manager being quoted as responding to labels with something like "uh, why?"

And what about Ani DiFranco - she doesn't even return phone calls form labels!

 

[bdbdbuck]

Yeah, and the Dave Matthews band has been grossing around 75 or 80 million a year for about 4 or 5 years now (this is ONLY concert income, record sales, performance royalties, etc. would be additional income). Oh yes it CAN be done.


bd

 

[gospel]

A friend of mine is the one who introduced me to the user friendly features of most Fostex recorders. He is a solo gospel music artist who approx. a year ago got tired of paying studios to do his recordings. For less than the price of one recording he set up his own studio that includes a VF-80. He now does not even have to work a normal job. He does approx. 150 bookings per year and makes a new recording every year. I asked him how he can make a living (by the looks of his house, a good living). He said it is because he does not pay a promoter, record company, or studios anymore. After talking to him I got the fever.

 

[junplugged]

Nice. Take him to dinner a few times, pick his brain. Post it here, please. Which reminds me, btw, there was a music biz. seminar I took once. They used to be advertised in the old Musician magazine. That was a good rag, sad to see that go. I still have some of the old issues. Then my subscription turned into Gig. I digress.... The MB seminar was all about that DIY and then, either attracting majors, or just keep on DIY, but still be profitable. Didn't They Might B Giants ignore majors for a while?

I heard thru a source close to me, (not me) that Barry Manilow (wanna hear a 2 word joke ....) is now on an Indy label and that last greatest hits cd was his final obligation to former maj. lbl. That indy lbl must be a big one, and with maj. distribution arrangements. I don't have the money or the time to read Billboard at the moment, so i don't know the details....

But even a small label can rip you off. DIY DIY DIY. w/ Fostex

Guy makes a good living as a solo Gospel artist? Do you have more info? website? does he actually release his self-recorded tracks?

 

[junplugged]

Remember when Dave Mathews Band started to break - they did everything themselves and record companies begging them to sign. I remember their manager being quoted as responding to labels with something like "uh, why?"

And what about Ani DiFranco - she doesn't even return phone calls form labels!

Didn't Hammer sell CD's and then turn down a maj. deal b/c he was making $5 a CD and they only would give the standard <$1 or so, then they came back w/ some unheard-of great deal for him? I could swear I heard that on one of those documentary things on mtv/vh1.

 

[gospel]

Guy makes a good living as a solo Gospel artist? Do you have more info? website? does he actually release his self-recorded tracks?

His name is Kirk Ayers and he has a website. Just put his name in google and it will come up. The soundtracks that he does not get specific permission to record he leases for $100 per song. I tried to listen to some of his songs and the firewall here at work would not let me do so. I'll find out more and let you know. I'm supposed to hook up with him soon and check out his set-up.