Can I have some critiques, please?

[kidkage]

Well, I'm doing some music on a Tascam Dp008 primarily because I live in an area with no studios, and im 16 so my parents naturally are skeptical about letting me venture out of town and spend tons of money.
Im learning about the entire process, of writing, and recording, and engineering on my own through natural progression.
I want to get opinions- not only on the music but the mixes and other stuff - from anonymous people because the people I know will most likelt tell me what I want to hear not what I need to here.

Ive uploaded two mixes of the same song, and I'd really appreciate if you could check them out for me. I'd love to get some feedback and opinions, whether its : "I love it", "I think the bass should be louder", "Some reverb would be nice on the vox" , etc.

They're both pretty different mixes. You can judge 1, 2, or both.

//Thanks so much for reading, I really appreciate it.

 

[jeffmaher]

The recorded sounds are very very good.

The bass and clean guitar are combining nicely, musically. The bass panned hard to the side is not so great. But the playing is careful and neat. The instruments are pretty well in tune. Nice work.

The lyric...what I can grab....is really good.

The singing, when on pitch...or not uncomfortably off....is good.

The time, except in the chorus, is pretty OK.

The distorted guitar is way loud.

A lot of natural energy and dynamics retained. Good.

The vocal should be louder in the mix.

Conventional recordings usually have instruments panned in particular places drums in the middle chunk, along with the bass guitar. Guitars on the wings...except for solo features. Vocal center. You don't have to follow that, but listen to yer fave grunge pioneers, and peg the placement of the instruments in the R&L field in your head. Use that as a guide for your stuff. Deviate later.

You might want to use a click track to keep everything in sync...then ditch it after the tracks are recorded. A good discipline to get familiar with.

The verb and stuff can wait. With the sounds you record, the playing you can do, and the songs you write [based on this one] you can create interesting recorded music without it dragging you down with more complexity than is immediately necessary. Just listen to a lot of pro stuff, and make notes...and apply what you learn about placement, level, sound and blend.

For you level of experience and age, I give this a 'nine'. That's good!

Keep going! I hear tons of potential in what you hear and create. And keep posting as you go. Please.

The opening is really grabbing.

What is your drum kit made up of?? :^) Is ma looking for her wash buckets??

But that's not a dis...use what you got to get the music out.

Wish I was 16, and doing what you're doing.

 

[kidkage]

The recorded sounds are very very good.

The bass and clean guitar are combining nicely, musically. The bass panned hard to the side is not so great. But the playing is careful and neat. The instruments are pretty well in tune. Nice work.

The lyric...what I can grab....is really good.

The singing, when on pitch...or not uncomfortably off....is good.

The time, except in the chorus, is pretty OK.

The distorted guitar is way loud.

A lot of natural energy and dynamics retained. Good.

The vocal should be louder in the mix.

Conventional recordings usually have instruments panned in particular places drums in the middle chunk, along with the bass guitar. Guitars on the wings...except for solo features. Vocal center. You don't have to follow that, but listen to yer fave grunge pioneers, and peg the placement of the instruments in the R&L field in your head. Use that as a guide for your stuff. Deviate later.

You might want to use a click track to keep everything in sync...then ditch it after the tracks are recorded. A good discipline to get familiar with.

The verb and stuff can wait. With the sounds you record, the playing you can do, and the songs you write [based on this one] you can create interesting recorded music without it dragging you down with more complexity than is immediately necessary. Just listen to a lot of pro stuff, and make notes...and apply what you learn about placement, level, sound and blend.

For you level of experience and age, I give this a 'nine'. That's good!

Keep going! I hear tons of potential in what you hear and create. And keep posting as you go. Please.

The opening is really grabbing.

What is your drum kit made up of?? :^) Is ma looking for her wash buckets??

But that's not a dis...use what you got to get the music out.

Wish I was 16, and doing what you're doing.

Thanks a lot for reading and listening. I can't express how much I appreciate it. Getting comments from people I don't personally know has been difficult, because no one wants to listen (and honestly I can't blame them; some random guy asking you to listen to something). But your comment is what I've been waiting for - an honest opinion that's not sugarcoated.
I'll definitely work on the panning and levels of the separate tracks (if you can give me some suggestions on how you think it should be done that would be great). I need to use a click track, but I couldnt get a timing on the metronome that felt right :/

Side note: I actually recorded two drum tracks- one panned hard left, and one panned hard right- should I knock that off ?

Thanks for the comments, I'm grateful, and will put them to use. I'll also keep updating as I make more progress.

P.S- The drum kit might as well be pots and pans its a difficult kit to work with... http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--WORST5

 

[singlespeak]

I agree with the panning suggestions. I feel very torn about your voice. It reminds me of Will Oldham sometimes ("wash awaaay"), which for me is a very good thing. But I'd definitely try and do some scales regularly to gain more control over it. It has emotion though that's a good sign. I think the guitars play well together and the balance between bass and guitars is good in the verses, they kind of blend in the chorus. The drums, although they sound extremely basic, kind of work for me. They could do with some post-processing I think, it sometimes sounds like I'm in your room instead of in the song. To be continued, I'm sure.

 

[Proletarian]

Love the drums. Yes they do some like they're in a bedroom but they work really well, very grunge/indie sounding. The bass needs to be re-recorded, it's distorted (not the good kind) so you lose all the tone. The lead guitar ROCKS! very well recorded, good level and sounds silky smooth. I like the arrangement (I can tell you like TOOL). The vocals show promise but sufer from poor mic technique. Google some stuff about mic technique and get familiar with it. Sometimes the sounds don't gel together especially when moving between different parts of the song, but you'll learn how to deal with this as you get more practice mixing. Good job mate, Keep it up

 

[kidkage]

Thanks for reading. Very appreciated. I want and need to work on my vocals, but I can't find any tips (well, I can if I "pay a one time fee of $34.99!!!") and that's kind of frustrating. I wish I could find some good tips that dont cost much.
The boxy feeling of the drums is a bother for sure. I used the built in stereo condensers on the Tascam to record those ( ...in my bedroom ) I should probably invest in a good condenser or two, and mess with the eq and stuff so maybe they won't sound so bad. I'll check into mic techniques right now.

//Thanks again.

 

[jeffmaher]

Kid, do you have a band together..or do you have the time and inclination to assemble one?

Prolly the best place to work on vocals is playing and singing in the garage with a bunch of buds, thrashing out and performing your tunes...and whatever music you like to play. And maybe getting enough material together to start playing some gigs. That's the labroratory, the place to hone all the skills you need to perform well in front of microphones, and learn to arrange a combo...learn the sounds and uses of the instruments...what sounds good.

You could also perform your stuff solo acoustic. Arranging songs to be effective that way is also good training: you have to make things interesting, and stuff like lyric, melody, hook and dynamics make their way into your bones.

Might want to do both! 16 is a good time to start!

I share venues with much older cats [who have nothing more in the way of natural gifts than you have] who have a catalog of tunes, the polish that practice brings, and money paid for their playing.

And all that you get out of that experience will effect your records positively.

Or you can take boring singing lessons...which ain't a bad idea...get some fundamentals and exercises to use for a lifetime. But a band and performances are the real deal.

 

[kidkage]

I think I'll pass on the singing lessons. For now at least. No one around here
I have found this site, that has some tips that might be useful http://www.vocalist.org.uk/index.html

I spent two years practicing then another two years looking for a band. I had started one with a few people that lasted about a year but that year was filled with drams/fights between the other members that I just didn't see a point in. And in looking back on it now it seems like no one took it as seriously as I did.
Anyway after that faded away, I came to the conclusion that 4 years was too long to wait, and finding members to start a band with as a teen in a crappy town in Mississippi was basically impossible so I emptied my savings and bought this stuff and went to work alone. It was 5 months yesterday. As well as my 4 year anniversary of playing guitar. Initially I didnt want to do anything but play guitar, I certainly did not want to sing, but melodies started jumping at me, and now I cant see myself letting someone else sing the lyrics and melodies that are close to me. And also listening to bands like Megadeth, Tad, Anvil, System of a Down, etc. that have singers with different voices I thought "You know, those guys had the confidence to sing and their music works, I may hate my voice but I love this music too much to not give it everything I can"

I do want to start a band again though. Eventually I want to put this stuff out on the net and find members that way and start gigging. It'll be easier in my shoes to have material and ask people to join my live band once I graduate high school and can find people regardless of age/location/ whatever. A friend of mine described the process as being a Nine Inch Nails type thing.

 

[Proletarian]

My first condenser was an AKG AT2020 and it's fantastic. Only cost $150 AUS (probably less in US). When I was doing vocals for my band's last recording I struggled to get the sound I was after using massive expensive tube mics and and others in the studio. Out of frustration I ended up pulling this out and it was spot on! You don't need to spend a lot of money and I would highly recommend this mic.

 

[Ezxtc4u]

I liked the guitars and the lyrics. I kept waiting for something....like a huge bass-guitar-drum explosion, like I was on the edge of a cliff. I would have enjoyed more bass guitar and a nice steady snare drum to keep my head bobbing and maybe a more pronounced chorus (another guitar layer?). Maybe adding the snare on the chorus would have worked. Work on your pitch and rhythm like others have said. This song has potential!

 

[kidkage]

I liked the guitars and the lyrics. I kept waiting for something....like a huge bass-guitar-drum explosion, like I was on the edge of a cliff. I would have enjoyed more bass guitar and a nice steady snare drum to keep my head bobbing and maybe a more pronounced chorus (another guitar layer?). Maybe adding the snare on the chorus would have worked. Work on your pitch and rhythm like others have said. This song has potential!

I might take you up on the adding another guitar and snare to the chorus. I never really thought about adding another guitar. The snare I initially turned off because of the worlds worst snare buzz (on what may be the worlds worst snare) during the verses and I never really bothered to turn in back on in the chorus I might try that too, it sounds like a good idea. And I certainly will take you up on the working on the voice thing.
//Thanks for the help.

 

[kidkage]

My first condenser was an AKG AT2020 and it's fantastic. Only cost $150 AUS (probably less in US). When I was doing vocals for my band's last recording I struggled to get the sound I was after using massive expensive tube mics and and others in the studio. Out of frustration I ended up pulling this out and it was spot on! You don't need to spend a lot of money and I would highly recommend this mic.

Im looking into the AT2020 and the MXL Cube currently. They're both $100 (U.S). As I definitely need a good, versatile mice.
Have you had any experience or have you heard anything about the MXL Cube condenser?

 

[kidkage]

bump.

new link-

suggestions on... anything and everything?

 

[kidkage]

Other note: thanks to Greg's guide to rock drums for n00bs I've found a nice inspiring sound on the drums. new heads, snare, cymbals, tuning :O have worked wonders. I finally picked up some studio projects b1's too.

 

[msb3671]

Good job. I agree with most all sound/mix suggestions above. As to the song, It's good. It needs a hotter chorus; something to seal it all up. I'm no singer myself, but I sing along with my fav big name acts for about a half an hour or so before I croon. I think it helps, a little. Keep rockin' dude. 16? Nice.

Also, if you have a band or music teacher at school, ask who the music geeks in your school are. Band 'geeks' (I was one!) like to rock too.

 

[rayc]

Still has that 70's cure vibe.
Vocals need to be raised & fattened - throw some chorus on them OR double track. maybe a tiny bit of reverb.
The drum panning is unconventional but interesting.
BASS in the change - is there one? If there is a) more volume & b) -5db at 100hz +4db at 200Hz then +5 at 3Khz at least for that change section.
The distorted guitar needs to be lowered and some serious eqing - as it's stepping on everything else.
Good song - mix needs work - but that will come.

 

[kidkage]

I've decided to extend the chorus and am probably going to incorprate the snare and bass drum and maybe hi hats into it and instead of doing the little pause and sort of starting over going straight into the second verse.
Yeah the bass is there, but I recorded it straight through the tascam and just couldnt get it loud enough. Ive got new bass equipment now so that should take care of it.
Vox are just single tracked completely dry here. Back then I felt like reverb or eq on anything would be cheating , but have since come to accept that it is fair game and can actually help get you to the real sound of things. I'm planing on doubling them on the chorus and having a little bit of reverb on the verses. Guitar on chorus will be dbled too, so I wont have to raise the volume so much and can pan it strategically. Having the drums panned like that drowned out the guitar so I raised the volume as much as I could. Im probably going to ditch the drum doubling now that I actually have mics to record with.

 

[kcearl]

anything is fair game...


I like the bass I get the cure references

The drums sound terrible...I dont understand why you pan them like that.....get the kick and snare in the middle..its only distracting like that

the vocals need to come up and be compressed..they are barely audible..the guitar sounds better in this version, though could come down, it could also do with at least another layer instead of waiting for the solo to come in and fill a hole...and thats what in essence is the problem with this, is there are too many holes in the mix, too much is panned harshly...but the drums need addressed first id say..unless your being experimental (dont) or playing electronic music keep the drums panned between 10 and 2 o clock..and thats the hats, cymbals and toms, not the snare/kick

for a first mix its not terrible, and theres some structure there but you need to be A/B ing it with a track that sounds similar and ask yourself whats missing

 

[kidkage]

The drums sound terrible...I dont understand why you pan them like that

the vocals need to come up and be compressed..they are barely audible..the guitar sounds better in this version, though could come down, it could also do with at least another layer instead of waiting for the solo to come in and fill a hole...and thats what in essence is the problem with this, is there are too many holes in the mix, too much is panned harshly...but the drums need addressed first id say..unless your being experimental (dont) or playing electronic music keep the drums panned between 10 and 2 o clock..and thats the hats, cymbals and toms, not the snare/kick

for a first mix its not terrible, and theres some structure there but you need to be A/B ing it with a track that sounds similar and ask yourself whats missing

honestly, i just had two drum tracks and used them both
i needed that 10 and 2 comment because ive been looking for a benchmark.

nows a good time to ask, what tracks would you all say sound similar?

 

[kcearl]

well as mentioned early Cure stuff...like Primary or Killing An Arab are excellent examples of something similar in genre...try some Big Black as well..Racer X is a great album

there an unwritten rule that your anchors, bass, kick, snare stay in the middle with your vocals..It generally works..if they mask each other use EQ to change their relationship...if that still doesnt work reverb and/or delay can be used to give them more room...

Always think about the relationship between the Kick drum and Bass..they should be in sync almost...if you give the bass a boost at a certain frequency, give the kick a cut at the same frequency..its important that they can be heard as they drive about 90% of all popular music, maybe more

Try to imagine you and your music are a band performing, how would the audience hear you... would they hear one cymbal way out to the left and the guitarist on his own at the other end of the stage?? no...pan them like a band, use EQ to stop them masking each other and reverb to make it 3 dimensional..the band dont all stand in a line do they?

Theres no harm in being experimental, lo fi, ambient, whatever, but in the beginning I think its best to understand and execute the basic principals first