Can Cakewalk make it a 2 horse race?

A

adam

New member
Spent alot of time with Sonar 2 this weekend, and been using Sonar 1 since last August. I am just so impressed with the program, and Sonar 2 is such a leap forward. Minor emergencies aside, it has really performed greatly for me and just seems so powerful and intuitive.

By day I am a management consultant and I began thinking about the music technology industry and where it is and where it is heading. What advances we have seen in the last 2 years and what seems to lie on the horizon! So my question is this:

In the future, can cakewalk sonar consolidate the market and effectively make it a 2 horse race, with Pro Tools? Is it already?

Mind you, I am not that familiar with Cubase, Vegas and other programs, but it just seems like this is a possiblity. Pro Tools for the mac friendly and those in the "biz" and Sonar for everyone else. (not talking about n-tracks or other programs, though I guess it could move towards a shareware world too)

Both Cakewalk and Avid/Digidesign seem to be agressively trying to gain marketshare.

Cakewalk was unknown in Europe a few years ago and now sonar has its own column in sound on sound and an on line tutorial in another UK recording mag.

They are offering a free trial and money back guarantee.

They seem to really "listen" to customers and seem to be pretty proactive in offering improvements that make a difference. Customer service seems to be pretty good.

They seem to be building a pretty stong plug-in library.

There seems to be alot of value offered for the price.

To me at least, is very intuitive, flexible and close to an all in one solution.

At the same time, pro tools is more and more in the prosumer market, with pro tools free, clinics, and the 001.


Not sure what my point is, but thought it was interesting. I am now a big fan of cakewalk and it would be great (I think) to see them succeed.
 
Young Man, Cakewalk IS the industry.

I have been using it for 10 years, going back to DOS days of MIDI only (when they were twelve tone software). I still perform live with a DOS version of Cakewalk LIVE. After all these years, it still stands up.

Greg Hendershott has consistently created an outstanding product, (PA9 aside), and Sonar 2.0XL is just a continuation of that. It is industrial strength, and still maintains user-friendliness.

Welcome to the Revolution.

-bm :cool:
 
I agree that they aren't a start up and are pretty large. I was just saying that perhaps the makers "in the middle" could get squeezed out, leaving a 1st tier of Cakewalk and Pro Tools, and a 3rd tier of freeware, shareware like n-tracks.

I had heard good things about cakewalk for a few years, and now experience it first hand. At the same time, I find that its reputation had been in the hobbyist/prosumer world and that the pro, pro tools world (and cubase users for that matter) looked down on it. Sonar seems to have everything the pro's need, and cakewalk seems to be moving upstream.
 
different beasts

I have a sonar/direct pro home system and work a pro tools studio. You'd have to use ProTools to see/hear that is a different beast.
 
Lorddiagram --

I agree that they are different -- today. It is the hardware interfaces that make the difference, from look and feel to DSP/CPU power.

In the future, this gap could shrink. 3rd party controllers are hitting the market, Sonar 2 has a generic control surface that I find very useful. Now it may not be seamless (but not so far off), and at this point doesn't include DSP/CPU factors, but it is a big step forward in my opinion.

As processer power increases, and as control surfaces evolve, the difference may not be huge. For a completely professional studio where there are a huge number of tracks and lots of cooks in the kitchen, yes pro tools is the way to go, and will likely be for sometime.

but for project studios, smaller pro studios, composers studios, sonar is a viable alternative, today.

Just some hypotheses.

BTW, I hope to be moving from NYC to Richmond, in the next year or so. How is the music/recording scene there?
 
Once I tried Pro Tools Lite in mid 2000, it doesn't recognize my KORG O5R/W serial port MIDI driver so it doesnt work, doesn't detect my VGA card properly so the monitor's color f#*@ed my eyes, and seems to "need tons attention before work". I never use it anymore. I use Cakewalk since mid '95. The dark world of DOS version, bright world of oportunity. Until now, I still use Cakewalk Prof 3 for Windows for warming up all MIDI things if necesary before cook it with analog in SONAR. They read my mind without saying. Translate it into a sound I really want to hear. One of my most reason using Cakewalk is : IT UNDERSTANDS WINDOWS. Never asking too much to it. Just following whatever Windows says as it's platform. The drivers, memory manager, file management things, ware requirement, etc... never got serious crash with most Windows utillity on the market (...but antiviruses. in this case, those antiviruses is the ones to blame!!!). So, how can I resist some personal assistant who never complain about everything I do & have, indeed doing everything good, smart, wise & most of all... on it's track ?
I'll say it loud and clear

Cakewalk over Pro Tools !!! .
 
I would say that Pro Tools is in a class by itself. How long it stays there is another matter. I have heard some comment that with the right software/hardware card and ASIO drivers that Pro Tools is loosing the Latency battle to native platforms. So at what point does a proprietary system loose it's edge to a 2.4 ghz P4 with a kick ass sound card (s)?

Anyway, I think Sonar changed the way alot of people look at the creation/production process. Just look at the up comming Cubase SX. From what I can tell Cubase SX is a merging of Nuendo and Cubase VST, with the ADDITION of handling/manipulating loops using the Recycle standard. Cubase is playing catchup with the totall integration approach that Sonar has. Logic is even further out of the loop in my opinion. Logic will need to add Acidized or Recycle support for realtime loop manipulation to keep up. So I would say Sonar and Cubase SX will dominate the 2nd tier (project studio segment). It's nice to see an American PC based program standing up so well against the German uber progams. Now if only Sonar would directly handle VST/i's. That would be amazing. no more wrapper!

Also if Sonic Foundry doesn't pull it together with a new version of Acid, Acid will get pushed aside as just a niche product. A high end utility to time loops with. That would be a shame. I love Acid, but I need one place to work that can do it all. I think Sonic Foundry is more interested in creating "enterpriseware" for high concept companies. Times, they are a changin.

jack
 
My dream would be compatability between software so joe logic can share files with tom sonar and so on,but I guess thats never gonna happen.:(
 
there is a format that is like that....sadie is the first company to implement it hopefully others will follow and we will end the reign of the EVIL digidesign....if any yall think PT STOCK converters sound way better then Motu, M-Audio, etc.... go jump in a lake and drown, cuz ur a sheep being led by the Pro tools herder...remember this is a BUSINESS, and the best BUSINESS MAN gets the greatest market share it doesn't mean what they are selling is the greatest.
 
well ok then...

Adam
I am living in Chicago and have been here for the past 2 years. Richmond's music seen is pretty "not much" But there is at least one or two of everything. What will you be doing in Richmond?
 
I am not sure. I am from NY and lived here all my life. But, I really want more space, buy a house, and not work so hard. Housing/Living/tax expenses are crazy in NY. My wife and I don't want to buy a small apartment or a house outside the city and have a giant mortgage over our heads.

By day I work for a business consulting firm. The money is good, but if I had a mortgage I would not have the flexibility to leave it (voluntarily or not).

I would like to also have more time to work on music pursuits. In Richmond I think I would get a similar job as I have now for a bit, get settled buy a house, maybe in the fan area, and look to other pursuits.

I have some friends there, and my wife's family is in VA.

Did you like Richmond? Why did you move?

Musicwise, I really have 2 aspects I want to pursue --

A music collective or workshop, bringing diverse musicians, composers together, creating interesting music, maybe different combinations of groups for live/recording. Anything. Kind of a mix of the NY jazz scene in the '50s, groups like the lounge lizards and john zorn, and memories of my grandfather getting together to play and sing standards with his cousins.

A true collaborator -- a lyricist, singer, multi-instrumentalist (ideal). I am pretty prolific but without lyrics (which are my achilles' heel) they never seem complete (expect for stuff like film, combo writing, dance group work i've done).
 
richmond

i lived in the fan for 7 years. Definetly a nice place. I just needed to go to where there was more oppurtunity to do audio work. THere are nice places to be had in Church Hill, and Jackson Ward.
 
Is this a joke? I'm sure more people use Logic than Sonar. And cubase is also far more popular. Sonar is a relative newcomer, and faces many hurdles before it becomes a "two-horse race." Especially since the breadth of plugins available on the Pro Tools platform kills everything else, and you can use Logic with the TDM bridge and Pro Tools hardware to get access to things like VSTis, AND the TDM plugins.

The world of audio is filled with many many great programs, some of which failed outright, some of which chug along at 5-10% marketshare. That is where Sonar is, and that is most likely where it will remain. The idea that everyone's gonna drop their favorite platforms for something brand new is pretty unlikely. Just look at all the "killer" apps and hardware that have come along in the last few years, and the way they fight for market share. Soundscape, Creamware, Radar, Sonic, Paris, ADAT, Mackie, all of the standalone recorders from Boss/Korg/Akai etc... The reality is that all of these companies exist in their own little niches, and this is currently (and will remain) a market full of small players for some time.
 
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