Cakewalk Finally Acknowledges Envelope Problem

  • Thread starter Thread starter dachay2tnr
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dachay2tnr

dachay2tnr

One Hit Wonder
Some of you may recall that I posted here a month or two ago regarding a problem I was having with Volume Envelopes. ( http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=117628&highlight=envelopes )

FYI, it is now officially a "known bug" in Sonar 3. http://www.cakewalk.com/forum/tm.asp?m=144304&mpage=1&key=

Quite disappointing to me is Cakewalk's stance that they will not supply a patch/fix for Sonar 3, and that it will be addressed in Sonar 4. I will accept them at their word that the fix is a major rewrite, but to expect us to pay again to get a product that works properly is misguided IMHO.

What ticks me off the most is that I actually waited several months before upgrading to S3 to avoid this exact type of issue. :mad: :mad:
 
At least they have admitted it now - it has been driving me insane trying to find new workarounds for the latest screw-up, although most things seem to have settled in native 3.1.1 tracks.

So, if we all report the bug, do we all get a free upgrade to v4?

:) Q.
 
dachay,

Very interested in this issue, as I use envelopes extensively for gain adjustments on individual clips...& I sometimes place one across the track itself, for further adjustment.

So, tell me (I perused you post, but may have missed this)...is it Track envelopes, or Clip envelopes (or both)?

Thanks,

mark4man
 
It appears to be Track Volume envelopes. At least in my case, Clip Envelopes still work.

The problem appears to be related to plugins that use delay compensation. In my case, I am pretty well convinced it was related to the use of SIR reverb.

Problem is, no one seems to be really sure which plugins cause problems and which don't, and so far Cakewalk has not given out much information except that they recognize there is a problem and have no plans to fix it until Sonar 4.

Other HR Dot Com'ers will know I have touted envelopes on this forum to anyone who will listen. It is very disappointing not to be able to trust this most valuable tool. I now have to decide whether to revert to Sonar 2.2 and give up the new bussing features, or to try and see if I can avoid the problem by avoiding SIR.
 
hey dachay. I can undersand how frustrating that must be, peraonally i have not run into such a problem yet and hope that i dont. That is terrable that we have to pay for the bug fix as well.

One thing i was thinking was:
The problem is with the volume track envelopes right? Well we know that sonar can draw various envelopes for effects plugins, so i'm wondering if we could apply a volume plugin and draw an envelope to controll it.
 
Dachay,

I've been able to get over envelope problems either by re-creating the envelope or using a dummy bus, ie. route the track output to another track/bus and put the automation on that.

Seems to be doing the trick here for the time being.

Ciao,

Q.
 
Neither have worked for me, Qwerty. The only workaround I have found is to use a Clip Envelope rather than a Track Envelope. It got me through the project I had the problem with.

Next project I am going to stay away from SIR and see whether of not the problem reoccurs.
 
I was gonna start a thread at the other place but looked here first..


the response from cakewalk makes me pissed.. especially considering how close I came to getting cubase.. some of the ass kissers over in the Sonar forum annoy me too.. envelopes in s3 should be solid before moving on to anything new imop.. how could someone reccomend S3 over cubase when things are so screwed up.. I don't care if the tech support is better with cakewalk.. I'd rather have a better working product with crappy tech support, then the best tech support in the world with a malfunctioning product..

my friend and I constantly battle with Sonar vs. cubase.. he uses cubase and says the envelopes are super tight!

I wish we at least had a list of what pugins will malfunction..



I hate feeling like I made the wrong decision with my money.. (especially since I don't have much of it) :mad: :(



I don't know.. I'm in a bad mood today though..
 
The envelopes were super tight in Sonar 2, too!! :D

Despite this issue, I still think you made a good choice with Sonar. It is a good product and constantly gets better. I am still hoping Cakewalk will do the right thing and release a patch for S3. Automation is just too essential when working on a DAW.

The good news is, if you do run into the problem you will at least have a clue of where to look to solve it. For me, I've been scratching my head for better than a month now - AND I wasn't even sure it was Sonar, so I've been downloading patches to the OS, new drivers for the Sound Card, etc.
 
I hear ya BS - it sux indeed.

I have worked in software development before and everything Ron says about the development team is true... All bums will be up in the air working on the next release. Going back and patching 3.1.1 now, would slip the release date of the major product.

Hmm...release a 'minor' patch or hit the major product's release date?

I know what I would do.... :)

What pisses me off is -

1. We are expected to buy a new product to fix the bug, yet there has been no discussion of a discounted price. In my Product Management time, if a customer discovered a bug that was only fixed in the next major release, they got it free.

2. They are still selling the Sonar 3 product even though it is a defunctive product which will not be fixed. I don't know about you guys, but that is definately against Australian consumer law.

But I still won't use Cubase......

Q.
 
Yeah, but the Sonar forum has gotten to be more fun than a WWF lock-down, steel cage match. :D :D

Interesting point you make Qwerty about them still selling Sonar 3. I hadn't thought of that. You might want to jump over there and toss that one in the fray. :eek:
 
dachay,

Thanks.

The problem appears to be related to plugins that use delay compensation.
Click to expand...
How does one tell if a plug uses delay compensation?

(BTW - The only reason I'm asking these questions is because I was seriously contemplating going to SONAR 3...& this has caused me to back off.)

mark4man
 
It's not about the software. It's about the people who buy the software. You would think Cakewalk would have figured that out by now.
 
FWIW, Morten Saether (Cakewalk Product Manager) has stated that they now plan to release a patch/fix for Sonar 3 - prior to the release of Sonar 4. No timing has been specified, but it appears they may have found an easier fix than they originally thought. I wouldn't be surprised to see something in a week or two - seeing as how they are talking publicly about it.

http://www.cakewalk.com/forum/tm.asp?m=144304&mpage=14
 
Quite an impressive turnaround. Power to the people, right on!

Either that or Ron/Morton/Greg et. al., realised just what a PR disaster this was rapidly turning into.

:) Q.

And qudos to you Dachay - you seemed to focus that discussion through 15 pages of viciousness with a calm, friendly, professional manner.
 
Yeah, their strength in the market place has always been built on a long standing customer base. They are doing the right thing and stepping up on this one.
 
Qwerty said:
And qudos to you Dachay - you seemed to focus that discussion through 15 pages of viciousness with a calm, friendly, professional manner.
Click to expand...

And even "borrowed" your thought about CW continuing to knowingly sell a product that didn't meet advertised specifications. :D
 
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