Cadillac Express with easlern and ibleedburgundy

[Robus]

I posted an earlier version of this song last year with my own demo vocals and programmed drums. Here it is with Nick doing lead vocals and Dave on drums. Nick and I contributed harmony vocals. Thanks guys!

This is a preliminary mix. I want to get the lead and harmony vocals squared away first. There are a lot of harmony vocals--four tracks of Nick's and five of mine. That took quite a bit of editing and blending. There may be more work to do. The balance between lead and harmony vocals is something else I could use advice about. If any of you recall, the harmony vocals on my original version were quite high--almost a choral arrangement. They are lower now but still prominent. It's how I'm hearing this song, but I'm open to suggestions.

On the lead vocal there is a double about 11dB below the main lead. It may need to come up or down. The balance on the lead vocal levels between the different parts of the song is still a work in progress. Thoughts on that? I'm hearing a slight boxiness here and there on the lead vocal, so additional EQ work will be on the to-do list.

I haven't focused too much yet on balance between drums, bass, guitars, and keyboards. This is more or less the working mix that developed as we were tracking. The keyboard is that reverse reverb electric piano patch on my Korg Triton that some have remarked about.

All comments welcome--thanks!

Latest mix:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzqJIqBR8uJecjhNQ2Q3ZS1Iam8/view?usp=sharing

Previous mix:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzqJIqBR8uJeTlE4U2lNVVU4SXc/view?usp=sharing

Cadillac Express
Words and music by Ray Taylor, 2015

Lightening falls
On a pool of muddy water
We pop up and we look around
You saw me in the flash of a new world
Well we just got to make it worth the sound

So we stepped off
And leave our reservations
Two lights running for the dawn
You and me, and the promise in us
A dusty road that leads us on

Well from what I've heard
We should buy us a river
And we’ll cross it
If the Lord has his way
And we'll do those things they do there
We'll be what it is we want to be

And we ride this world on the Cadillac Express
And we don’t heed much of the rest
With the moon on your lips
And the fire in my hair
And a word of wonder in the air

Well hey now
Light up the candles now
Throw a smile to celebrate
Light up the candles now
You’re a picture of
The Book of Love and Fate
And the world never was so dear to me as late

Well from what I've heard
We should buy us a river
And we’ll cross it
If the Lord has his way
And we’ll do those things they do there
We’ll be what it is we want to be

 

[Bubba po]

Nice song, Ray. As usual the guitars are faultless, played and mixed really well. Nick's vocal is great and the harmonies work well, nice and subtle.

IBB's drum parts are well-played too and the whole thing has quite a nice "Dreams" (Fleetwood Mac) groove. If you don't mind suggestions for mixing the drums, my feeling is that the kit seems thin, EQ-wise, particularly the toms.

If you've hi-passed the overheads at all, I would take that off to start with. Nicely-recorded overheads add a lot to the sound and the only shaping I would give to them at this stage would be a bit of a cut at 400 Hz with a medium Q.

When I EQ my spot-miked toms I tend to hi-pass them at slightly lower than 50 Hz, apply a fairly deep cut in the low mids - say 4-500 Hz again - and if needed a tiny lift at 100-150 Hz. My son doesn't hit the toms exceptionally hard so I usually have to give the highs a lift as well - a few dB lift centred around 5 kHz with a fairly wide Q usually does it. I have to slightly alter these basic settings because floor toms are tuned lower than rack toms in general, but there you have the gist of my plan for toms.

The kick drum sounds pretty good, but at times the kick and bass don't seem to have a locked-in EQ signature, where each is reinforcing the other. They seem kind of separate, if you get my drift? The snare seems well-recorded but is lacking a bit of low-end body, again. Is there a bottom mic on the snare, because the wires seem a little prominent, giving the thing a brittle sound.

My advice (take it or leave it, LOL!) is to put "Dreams" on, and listen to what the bass and drums are doing on that. A/B it and try to suss out where that song's low end works so brilliantly and try to apply at least a little of that character to your mix. Don't be afraid of low end on drums - lows don't equal mud in mixes, in my view.

I do like the song, but I also feel the meat is lacking a bit and I think that can be improved by EQing the drums better. I believe I have some experience and success in mixing live drums that I'd like to pass on!

Cheers, Ray.

 

[Nola]

Hey Robus, it sounds interesting. Is it me or is the bass a bit to the left?

I find myself wanting more treble.
The bass in general is very "fat" and sounds like all high is rolled off, so it's giving the mix a lot of weight. To my ear, that weight conflicts with the opening chords. When other things come in, it still has a heavy feel throughout the song. This is more constricted feeling and dark from what I'm used to hearing from you. I think it's the bass dominating the mix. I thought the vocal was a little low, too. But again, I think some of this is the bass masking frequencies. I'd start by lowering (or EQing) the bass to tame it and see where things fall.

 

[Bubba po]

Hey Robus, it sounds interesting. Is it me or is the bass a bit to the left?

I find myself wanting more treble.
The bass in general is very "fat" and sounds like all high is rolled off, so it's giving the mix a lot of weight. To my ear, that weight conflicts with the opening chords. When other things come in, it still has a heavy feel throughout the song. This is more constricted feeling and dark from what I'm used to hearing from you. I think it's the bass dominating the mix. I thought the vocal was a little low, too. But again, I think some of this is the bass masking frequencies. I'd start by lowering (or EQing) the bass to tame it and see where things fall.

Yes, I think the bass guitar is supplying all the low end in the mix and ought to share it with the kit, more. a lift on the bass at 1-2 kHz would help, plus a bit of low thinning once the kit is beefed up. They ought to sound like a unit but it's not quite there yet.

 

[Robus]

Thanks guys. I need to have a closer look at the backing tracks for sure. My thought is that the bass level may be a bit high. I usually start low and get told the bass needs to come up. I wonder if backing off the bass would open up some space for the drums to be heard better, vocals and guitars too for that matter. The bass is carrying the arrangement at the moment. Rhythm guitars are pretty low in the mix. The original demo version of this song had a Jazz bass. I switched to a P bass for this version and am hearing a bit of the trouble I always tend to have with P basses--a low mid focus that works against the open sound that I aim for in my mixes.

There is some EQ work as well as compression on the drums. I'll have to go back and look at what I've done there, though I don't think I high passed the overheads.

 

[Nola]

The original demo version of this song had a Jazz bass. I switched to a P bass for this version and am hearing a bit of the trouble I always tend to have with P basses--a low mid focus that works against the open sound that I aim for in my mixes.

Wow, interesting. I know we talked about you switching to the p-bass. I wouldn't have guessed it was a P, but I thought it was your J with the treble all rolled off. It's definitely a noticeable difference. Did you roll off highs on the P?

 

[Robus]

I usually roll the tone knob back a little on a P bass but not a lot. Jazz bass, I never roll the tone off. To me, this doesn't sound at all like a J bass. I'm using flat wounds of course, and playing finger style.

 

[Armistice]

Haven't got time for a detailed response just now but I remember the first attempt at this song and this is much better. Nice lead vocals. Caught a significant pop at 2:19/2:20 and a smaller one at 2:42/2:43 - like one of the other posters I felt a bit disoriented at the start as the bass seemed to be to one side. Agree with bubba's comments re. the bass balance to. Also I can clearly hear your amp buzzing in the first verse - might be worth going over the backing once you get the vocals sorted - I think you've got the BVs close but not sure on the reverb level - seem a little dry.

Actually as I'm listening I'm hearing a few random pops - maybe it's the render?

 

[Robus]

Thanks Armistice. I'll check out those pops. There was some background noise in the vocal mics. I've done some detail editing to remove it but might need to do more. The bass is panned center--I checked. I'll have to investigate why it might be imaging to one side.

 

[TripleM]

I thought this was very good. Guitars, drums, vocal all sound awesome. There is the slightest hint of boxiness in the vocal, but it's perfect for this tune.

Cymbals sound terrific. Snare too.

Bass is decent. But it's a little loud and/or it has a low end frequency that booms every once in a while.

But it's a stretch to call that a problem.

OK a couple of consonants in the vocal have an artifact or two here and there. But it's not big deal.

This was really really good.

 

[ibleedburgundy]

Nice song, Ray. As usual the guitars are faultless, played and mixed really well. Nick's vocal is great and the harmonies work well, nice and subtle.

IBB's drum parts are well-played too and the whole thing has quite a nice "Dreams" (Fleetwood Mac) groove. If you don't mind suggestions for mixing the drums, my feeling is that the kit seems thin, EQ-wise, particularly the toms.

If you've hi-passed the overheads at all, I would take that off to start with. Nicely-recorded overheads add a lot to the sound and the only shaping I would give to them at this stage would be a bit of a cut at 400 Hz with a medium Q.

When I EQ my spot-miked toms I tend to hi-pass them at slightly lower than 50 Hz, apply a fairly deep cut in the low mids - say 4-500 Hz again - and if needed a tiny lift at 100-150 Hz. My son doesn't hit the toms exceptionally hard so I usually have to give the highs a lift as well - a few dB lift centred around 5 kHz with a fairly wide Q usually does it. I have to slightly alter these basic settings because floor toms are tuned lower than rack toms in general, but there you have the gist of my plan for toms.

The kick drum sounds pretty good, but at times the kick and bass don't seem to have a locked-in EQ signature, where each is reinforcing the other. They seem kind of separate, if you get my drift? The snare seems well-recorded but is lacking a bit of low-end body, again. Is there a bottom mic on the snare, because the wires seem a little prominent, giving the thing a brittle sound.

My advice (take it or leave it, LOL!) is to put "Dreams" on, and listen to what the bass and drums are doing on that. A/B it and try to suss out where that song's low end works so brilliantly and try to apply at least a little of that character to your mix. Don't be afraid of low end on drums - lows don't equal mud in mixes, in my view.

I do like the song, but I also feel the meat is lacking a bit and I think that can be improved by EQing the drums better. I believe I have some experience and success in mixing live drums that I'd like to pass on!

Cheers, Ray.

Fleetwood Mac is pretty much what I am going for here. Thanks!

Ray puts the bottom mic on the snare at a higher level than I do. But his mixes always sound nice and natural, so it's hard to argue with.

I agree, if there is a little more low end on the toms to be had, that may be good. Not sure how much OH vs the close mics Ray has going on here, or if there is additional fullness to be had on the toms in the 80-120Hz area.

 

[ibleedburgundy]

I really like the bass drum and cymbals on here. Snare and toms are a work in progress for me.

I like the bass tone a lot, but I am wondering if the track could be tighter with the drums. The bass rhythms are back of the beat, maybe a bit too much once the song starts going. I feel like it could scoot a little more - be more in the pocket and stay there. Emphasize downbeats a bit more to stick to the bass drum and snare drum. As always, I really like the walking you are doing. Not saying it definitely needs a re-track, but something to consider.

Guitar tones are fantastic IMO. You are kinda pinching some notes here and there - love those.

Vocals are great, especially at 2:26, friggin awesome stuff there.

 

[Crycookie]

This is an amazing tune,I record the original ,the guitars are sweet and the all arrangement are well thought ,performed and balanced. I love the piano part a lot. Vocals are great, I have to admit there is not much I can say or add about the mix though, it is really good

 

[Robus]

Dave, I may wind up retracking the bass. If so, I'll go back to the Jazz. That alone should open the mix up. I'll see what I can do to fatten up the toms. Do you think the snare could use more top?

---------- Update ----------

Thanks Crycookie.

 

[ibleedburgundy]

Dave, I may wind up retracking the bass. If so, I'll go back to the Jazz. That alone should open the mix up. I'll see what I can do to fatten up the toms. Do you think the snare could use more top?

Yeah, maybe a touch. Don't make it too too different though. The bottom mic punches through the mix in a good way.

 

[ibleedburgundy]

haha there's some cowbell in there. I would have expected somebody to say "what the fuck are you doing?!?" by now.

We kinda slipped it in there stealth-like though. I wouldn't do it if I didn't think worked.

 

[TripleM]

I really like the bass drum and cymbals on here. Snare and toms are a work in progress for me.

The cymbals sounded darned near perfect, if there is such a thing. What's wrong with the snare? I thought it was really good.

 

[easlern]

haha there's some cowbell in there. I would have expected somebody to say "what the fuck are you doing?!?" by now.

We kinda slipped it in there stealth-like though. I wouldn't do it if I didn't think worked.

The cowbell's my favorite part of the instrumental before the last verse lol. That little cadunka. . . and then that little whip-sounding crash before the last phrase, love those little accents.

Sounds great Ray, sorry about that boxiness. Room sound has been the most challenging part of getting good recordings for me.

 

[Robus]

I'm going to work some more on the EQ. I should be able to reduce the boxiness.

 

[ibleedburgundy]

The cymbals sounded darned near perfect, if there is such a thing. What's wrong with the snare? I thought it was really good.

Snare is a bit thin IMO. It's a tracking thing so that's on me, not Ray.