cabinet miking

[cellardweller]

Sorry if these are covered elsewhere, I couldn't find them.

What is the tonal difference of moving a mic from close to the center, outwards to the edge of the speaker (when miking a guitar cabinet)?

How do I know that my cabinets' volume level is too loud/too quiet for recording?

Is it always necessary to remove more lows than you normally would when recording guitar with distortion?

I've seen most people miking very close to their amp/cabinet. When would I want to move the mic away from the source? What purpose would this serve for recording?

Enlightement greatly appreciated!!!

 

[Strange Leaf]

What is the tonal difference of moving a mic from close to the center, outwards to the edge of the speaker (when miking a guitar cabinet)?

Center of the cone = brighter sound.
Towards the edge = darker.

Also try angling the mike for more variety in sound.

 

[mjhigg]

Step away from the cabinet!

Seriously, for years I followed the advice of every beginners recording book, and close-miked the cabinet with a Shure SM57 at and angle pointed at the cone. I guess it all depends on what you're into, but dude, I hate that freakin' sound! It only took me two years to realize it.

The other thing that most recording books tell you is that their 'recipes' are only starting points, and to experiment to find what's best for what you are doing. I would highly recommend doing this exclusively!

Here's my 'recipe':
Listen with a nice set of cans, and adjust on the fly. Then record a little, and listen on your monitors. Repeat as desired.

With electric guitar, I usually end up several feet away from the amp, and it's a bigger sound. Soemtimes I use several mics. Sometimes I put the amp next to the dryer, with a mic inside the dryer for a weird reverb sound.

Dowhatchulike!

 

[mrface2112]

<<When would I want to move the mic away from the source? What purpose would this serve for recording?>>

it all depends on what kind of sound you're looking for, really.....as well as a bunch of other factors, such as your room, isolation, etc.

for close-mic'd, i like the sm57 (actually, i prefer the older 545), angled about 30degrees and pointing at an area between the center and edge of the cone.

for a situation where i don't need the amp close mic'd, i really really dig the SP B1, about 3ft from the amp. fantastic sound. the further you move a mic away from the amp, the more your room is going to come into play.


a couple other "general" answers to your questions:

<<How do I know that my cabinets' volume level is too loud/too quiet for recording?>>

when it either clips/creates distortion on the channel or you can't hear anything on the channel when solo'd. simply put, just drive your amp til it sounds good in the room, THEN setup a mic in front and use a pad if you need one. be careful to take care of your ears when walking in front of amps!


<<Is it always necessary to remove more lows than you normally would when recording guitar with distortion? >>

no, but it depends on your mix and your other tracks and how they play together. the low end of the guitar can interfere with the upper end of the bass, among other things. i almost always roll off the bass on my guitar tracks when they have to sit in a mix. otherwise there's just too much garbage in the low end.

also, for distorted guitars, you generally get a better tone with less distortion--too much distortion usually tends to sound like crap on tape. another less is more situation.


HTH, HAND,
wade

 

[cellardweller]

Would an SM57 be of any use for miking any distance away from the cabinet?

Before I realized the potential taboo nature of it, I covered my walls in carpet (it's really nice carpet too!), in an attempt to lessen the disturbance to certain female members of my family (*ahem*).
Would this cause a "low,dead" sound?

How much does the proximity of the amp/cabinet to the wall behind it affect the sound?
How about the material of the wall behind it, any effect?

Thanks for all of the help so far, suspicions have been confirmed and paranoias reinforced...


(Seriously, thanx)
C.D.

 

[mrface2112]

you're always gonna get some bounce, as well as absorption, when you've got an amp near a wall, regardless of what it's covered with. carpeting does usually tend to "deaden" the sound of a room, but not always in a "good way".

not knowing your room, the size/dimensions, the amp, or the way they all work together, it's pretty near impossible to answer your question. it's one of those "gotta be there to hear it" things.

that said, you can distance mic with an sm57--there's no rules here, but i bet it won't sound as good as if you'd close-mic'd it.


in general, and speaking in "rules of thumb", the closer you mic a source, the more you remove the room from the sound. the further you place the mic from the source, the more the room comes into play. only you are going to be able to find what sounds best in your room. there's a reason crappy drums in a crappy room sound FAR better when close mic'd.


that all said, we haven't discussed the rest of your signal chain at all--maybe the answer lies within there, too. an sm57 (most dynamics, for that matter) tends to perform considerably nicer when mated with a nicer preamp.


wade

 

[TexRoadkill]

Step away from the cabinet!

Seriously, for years I followed the advice of every beginners recording book, and close-miked the cabinet with a Shure SM57 at and angle pointed at the cone. I guess it all depends on what you're into, but dude, I hate that freakin' sound! It only took me two years to realize it.

I have to agree with that. I find a close miced 57 sounds dull and boring. You usually have to jack up the high end on the cabinet just to get some life back into the sound.

Cabinets and amps usually sound best if you get them off of the ground with a chair or milk crate. Try to put them out in the room away from the walls but not dead center of either room dimension. Sometimes I like to put up some 703 panels around the sides, back and even top of the cab to reduce room reflections.

Lately I've been liking the sound of the SP C1 as a cab mic. I usually put it 1'-3' feet away and crank the amp until it sounds good. That distance seems to let the sound develop and give it a little air without too much room tone. The C1 really seems to capture the natural electric tone very well and it doesn't get too dull or crunchy on distortion.

 

[cellardweller]

I don't have much (yet!).

Ampeg VT-120(currently out of commission though), Crate ?2X12, Mackie 808m, Fostex MR8. Also have a ZOOM drum machine.

How are the pre's in this series of Mackies? I haven't noticed much difference between use and non-use of the mackie, but then again, I've never really compared back to back the two.

How far is it necessary to get a cab off of the floor to avoid "ground effect"?

 

[Garak]

If your amp dosn't sound good close mic'd mabe its time to get a new amp or gutiar. Or start with flat EQ and ask your self whats wrong with the sound.

I've worked with alot of diffrent bands in the studio and live. One thing I've learned is than I good sound starts with a good source.

99% of young gutiarest(and even some of the old ones) have no clue how to setup the tone on the their amp.

First off it starts with the right amp, gutiar and pickup for your style of music. Then you start with all the tone controls straight up or flat(which is 5 on most amps) and then listen. Whats wrong with the sound, is it too thin? then maybe cut some of the highs or bring in a little mid or low, nothing on the amp should be on 10 or 0, they should be within 3 or 4 of 5.

One major factor in the sound of the amp is where its to with respect to the wall. This makes a real big diffrence with open back amps. Move the amp around with everything at 5 untill it sounds the best, then go back through and adjust the tone.

Once you have done all that, then you can start on mic placement which 99% of the time will be right on the cone, maybe a off to one side. Then listen on headphones, and see whats wrong with the sound, if it seems to be lacking lows cut some of the highs, don't just crank the lows.

Try to keep everything on the amp as close to 5 as possible and if you find your lacking something cut the oppist rather than boosting alot. The reason for keeping everything at 5 is that is where you amp was designed to sound best.

Oh yea one more thing, with transistor amps keep the volume at a minimun, there is no reason to have it blasting. With tube amps just have it loud enough to keep your tubes warm

 

[cellardweller]

Very interesting. But isn't the setting lo/mid/hi's sometimes impacted by a shitty disign, as with the Crate I own? I am not able to keep settings that consistent on it. My Ampeg however, were all set within the parameters you've stated. Luckily I didn't pay much for the Crate.

So this may sound incredibly stupid, but you stated something to the effect that amps were designed to be operated optimally around 5 on all knobs. If something were lacking somewhere still, would adjusting the eq slightly with a pedal or whatever affect the amps' optimization?

 

[Garak]

The electronics in an amp usually sound best at around unity which is around 5. The over all sound will ofcouse be affected by the pedals but the amp will still be operating at unity. Also the type of guitar, pickup and pickup placement will be a major factor just like the voice of a singer.

Basicly what I'm saying is start with everything in the middle, including settings on pedals, and work from there making small adjustments.

Also start without the pedals, just the amp and guitar. Once you get a good sound with just the guitar going into the amps you can insert the pedals into the signal chain.