Roel
That SMART guy.
I have been thinking about that too... But I think the jury at the conservatory will get pretty suspicious when I insist on bringing my own piano and PA rig... 
VOXVENDOR
New member
Here is a quote directly from Frank's Website.....
"As for his performing, he rarely plays a real piano anymore."
"I have my own piano; it's built in. It looks exactly like a concert Grand and my synth slides right into it. It flies with me, and I get the same piano every night. No surprises, no tuning. And it's got bells and whistles on it that a regular piano doesn't have.
"No doubt that there's nothing like a good, tuned-up Steinway - but how often do you get a good, tuned-up Steinway ? Unless you 're at the Met."
-From www.frankmills.com
Cool eh....
Joe
"As for his performing, he rarely plays a real piano anymore."
"I have my own piano; it's built in. It looks exactly like a concert Grand and my synth slides right into it. It flies with me, and I get the same piano every night. No surprises, no tuning. And it's got bells and whistles on it that a regular piano doesn't have.
"No doubt that there's nothing like a good, tuned-up Steinway - but how often do you get a good, tuned-up Steinway ? Unless you 're at the Met."
-From www.frankmills.com
Cool eh....
Joe
Roel
That SMART guy.
Actually, I got a tuned Steinway grand to play a 'concert' when I was about 10. Every student had to play a small piece... Hehe.
I guess it really is the kind of music that he plays. Haven't seen a classical recital on a grand that is not tuned (Have seen a symphonic orchestra that couldn't play in tune though). Starting from a certain level up, playing classical on a digital doesn't work anyways. Certainly not when you have to go plucking in it.
I guess it really is the kind of music that he plays. Haven't seen a classical recital on a grand that is not tuned (Have seen a symphonic orchestra that couldn't play in tune though). Starting from a certain level up, playing classical on a digital doesn't work anyways. Certainly not when you have to go plucking in it.
L
LongWaveStudio
New member
you really want a real piano?
is it cus of the feel or the sound? or both?
cus the Korg SG Piano is available in rack or piano form and has stunning sounds.
You could get the rack and a weighted controller, or the piano version with weighted keys.
it's a really good sound, check it out. hehe, no micing up.
i know there's nothing like the real thing, but if you're not that fussy, you could give it a try.
is it cus of the feel or the sound? or both?
cus the Korg SG Piano is available in rack or piano form and has stunning sounds.
You could get the rack and a weighted controller, or the piano version with weighted keys.
it's a really good sound, check it out. hehe, no micing up.
i know there's nothing like the real thing, but if you're not that fussy, you could give it a try.
C
CyanJaguar
New member
of about 18 upright pianos in the practice rooms in my school(small school) the Baldwin is the best sounding.
VOXVENDOR
New member
I still think the Casio inside a homade wooden box is better!
Roel
That SMART guy.
LongWaveStudio said:
Both! Nothing is like a real piano. For example: playing with the sustain pedal allows ALL the strings to resonate. Try to simulate THAT digitally! Not a single digital piano that does that. Another trick: slowly depress a note, so it doesn't sound. Keep it down, and hit a note one fifth below that one hard, releasing it directly. You'll hear the resonance...
Another thing which might be most important: on a real piano there's a change of tone when hitting the keys harder, the tone gets more aggressive, less round. And there is a difference between the speed and the force you hit a key. Digital sounds the same, cause it only measures the velocity. This makes a big difference when playing staccato...
And a real piano doesn't sound as clean. I have a Roland A90, which is btw an awesome digital piano, and I've been playing it for about 4 years now. Put me behind a real piano and I'm lost. Well, I can find my way, but I feel lost. It's just different to play. VERY different...
Oh, and I played the korg when I was looking for the digital piano... Didn't like it. Not even close to the A90.
T
TMHill
New member
Roel
One of the (great many) things which subconsciously attracts people to keyboards rather than pianos is the "crapness shame" factor. A keyboard can be turned down or switched to headphones. This means that nobody hears you when you are a 35 year old punk having to play "Mary had a Little Lamb".
You say you feel "Lost" sitting at a piano. What you are actually saying is that there's almost no way you can stop making a loud noise while you try to find your way.
There's no cure except to get on with it. You will improve MASSIVELY by playing a real piano - simply because of the confidence you will have to gain.
Note: There doesn't have to be anyone around for you still to feel "crapness shame". The fact of the size of the sound of the instrument, and that you hear it not just with your ears, but your entire body, will still make you nervous of it. "Crapness shame" is like any other phobia. Confront your demons.
(never thought I'd use that smiley)
Cheers
Tom
ps. "Crapness Shame" is a registered trademark (TM) of Back-of-a-Cereal-box Psychology courses.
One of the (great many) things which subconsciously attracts people to keyboards rather than pianos is the "crapness shame" factor. A keyboard can be turned down or switched to headphones. This means that nobody hears you when you are a 35 year old punk having to play "Mary had a Little Lamb".
You say you feel "Lost" sitting at a piano. What you are actually saying is that there's almost no way you can stop making a loud noise while you try to find your way.
There's no cure except to get on with it. You will improve MASSIVELY by playing a real piano - simply because of the confidence you will have to gain.
Note: There doesn't have to be anyone around for you still to feel "crapness shame". The fact of the size of the sound of the instrument, and that you hear it not just with your ears, but your entire body, will still make you nervous of it. "Crapness shame" is like any other phobia. Confront your demons.
(never thought I'd use that smiley)Cheers
Tom
ps. "Crapness Shame" is a registered trademark (TM) of Back-of-a-Cereal-box Psychology courses.
Roel
That SMART guy.
That could be it... But you need to get used to the feel of the piano too. It really feels different to play.
But what you say is very correct, I notice it with my sax. Playing alone, in quartet or in fanfare is ALOT harder than playing in a rockband with a mic. Just simply because you hear more. Every noise that shouldn't be there at the start of the note. *shudder*
This is also one of the reasons I want to buy it now. I need to get used to it for my entrance exam... Really need to.
But what you say is very correct, I notice it with my sax. Playing alone, in quartet or in fanfare is ALOT harder than playing in a rockband with a mic. Just simply because you hear more. Every noise that shouldn't be there at the start of the note. *shudder*
This is also one of the reasons I want to buy it now. I need to get used to it for my entrance exam... Really need to.
Roel
That SMART guy.
I have found a second hand yamaha U1 with a dealer. It's 20 years old, and I get a 10 year guaranty. It is restored pretty good, the action was very equal all over the keyboard and the sound was good to. Sounded a little less aggressive as the new ones I tried, little rounder. Just the highest octave was bad sounding. There was hardly any sustain on the notes. He told me that if I wanted he could try hardening the hammers a little...
The cost of it was about 3700 Euro, while a new U1 is 5850 Euro... Is it a good buy? How bad is the upperoctave thing?
The cost of it was about 3700 Euro, while a new U1 is 5850 Euro... Is it a good buy? How bad is the upperoctave thing?
VOXVENDOR
New member
*Shakes Head*
Should have bought the Casio
Should have bought the Casio
Roel
That SMART guy.
Haven't bought it yet... But I'm thinking I will buy it somewhere this week, depending on the feedback I get about the high octave-thingy...
T
TMHill
New member
(Goes hmm.....)
I really like Yamaha U1s for their brightness! There's a percussive sound which goes along with the note which makes certain music types really come alive. (Play some Bartok on one, for eg.)
So - I'm interested to hear that yours has a rounder sound. Probably newer felts on the hammer, rather than anything to do with the wood. Don't have him harden the felts for you - just play them in.
They're pretty solid pianos, on the whole - so my only concern is how good the recon job was. Tell me more about this top octave. "bad" can mean a number of things. I'm starting to worry that you are buying a piano that has been fitted with pretty poor quality strings. This is so much more exposed by the higher registers. This brings problems down the line, as the whole board relies on the correct stresses being held at each point along the range of strings. So if your upper register strings are crap, it will have a bearing on the rest of the strings later on. Replacing the entire set is expensive, time consuming, and frankly a pain in the arse.
If you're happy that the strings are ok, then I think I'd say you are buying a good piano for your level, which will stay good enough for you for a long time. (As with any recon, though, don't leave ANY problems to fester - get them sorted as you go along.)
The price is about right, too - not a bargain, but if you are pleased with the quality of the instrument, then its probably about right.
Well done on being careful and getting to the right instrument!
Tom
I really like Yamaha U1s for their brightness! There's a percussive sound which goes along with the note which makes certain music types really come alive. (Play some Bartok on one, for eg.)
So - I'm interested to hear that yours has a rounder sound. Probably newer felts on the hammer, rather than anything to do with the wood. Don't have him harden the felts for you - just play them in.
They're pretty solid pianos, on the whole - so my only concern is how good the recon job was. Tell me more about this top octave. "bad" can mean a number of things. I'm starting to worry that you are buying a piano that has been fitted with pretty poor quality strings. This is so much more exposed by the higher registers. This brings problems down the line, as the whole board relies on the correct stresses being held at each point along the range of strings. So if your upper register strings are crap, it will have a bearing on the rest of the strings later on. Replacing the entire set is expensive, time consuming, and frankly a pain in the arse.
If you're happy that the strings are ok, then I think I'd say you are buying a good piano for your level, which will stay good enough for you for a long time. (As with any recon, though, don't leave ANY problems to fester - get them sorted as you go along.)
The price is about right, too - not a bargain, but if you are pleased with the quality of the instrument, then its probably about right.
Well done on being careful and getting to the right instrument!
Tom
Michael Jones
New member
Most piano's are going to sound "good" in the middle registers. It's the upper and lower registers that can tell more about a piano's condition. One thing is, if it was recently restored, and had new strings put on as part of the restoration, the strings could just be "green" and haven't really settled into tuning yet. That would be especially evedent in the higher registers. I agree with Tom's assesment about NOT hardening the hammers. Once you've done something like that, it's nearly impossible to go back.
Yamaha's do tend to be "bright" instruments though, and if thats the sound you're after, then great! It's interesting that this one seems rounded though. Probably just a product of the way it was voiced, which means to me that the hammers were probably "needled", and that could account for the diminished sustain in the upper registers.
Ask him who voiced the piano, and try to talk to that guy.
Yamaha's do tend to be "bright" instruments though, and if thats the sound you're after, then great! It's interesting that this one seems rounded though. Probably just a product of the way it was voiced, which means to me that the hammers were probably "needled", and that could account for the diminished sustain in the upper registers.
Ask him who voiced the piano, and try to talk to that guy.
Roel
That SMART guy.
Got this from another place:
Which explains the rounder sound. I was very pleased with the sound. Just that highest octave. I'll check if the higher notes maybe have newer strings or anything... Any other way to check the strings or some other things I should notice? The lower notes sounded very good, and had a good long sustain.
Hardening the felts is just what he proposed for the upper octave, not for the rest of the piano, which sounded very good and consistent. Really allows you to sing very good. I'm pretty confident that it is a good piano, if it sounds and plays consistent after 20 years, it must be. And the technician also did a good job. I'm really curious what the reason for that bad highest octave is. The guy told me most of the piano's have a region where it sounds less good. If it's just the upper octave, it is livable...
The guy was also more off a musician than the typical salesman in the other shop. He explained alot instead of just trying to sell. We were even discussing just about music for a while. He really did it because he like it... They also told me, if I wanted a new piano, I could go with them to the distributor and choose it myself! It's a smaller shop, but I trust the guy alot more than the big shops...
Which explains the rounder sound. I was very pleased with the sound. Just that highest octave. I'll check if the higher notes maybe have newer strings or anything... Any other way to check the strings or some other things I should notice? The lower notes sounded very good, and had a good long sustain.
Hardening the felts is just what he proposed for the upper octave, not for the rest of the piano, which sounded very good and consistent. Really allows you to sing very good. I'm pretty confident that it is a good piano, if it sounds and plays consistent after 20 years, it must be. And the technician also did a good job. I'm really curious what the reason for that bad highest octave is. The guy told me most of the piano's have a region where it sounds less good. If it's just the upper octave, it is livable...
The guy was also more off a musician than the typical salesman in the other shop. He explained alot instead of just trying to sell. We were even discussing just about music for a while. He really did it because he like it... They also told me, if I wanted a new piano, I could go with them to the distributor and choose it myself! It's a smaller shop, but I trust the guy alot more than the big shops...
Roel
That SMART guy.
Is there maybe a way to see this? And is it a bad thing? Or just a matter of taste? I'm gonna ask what adjustements where needed on the piano, what they've done exactly... Good info! Thanks, both of you!Michael Jones said:
Michael Jones
New member
I don't think you can tell just by looking. Ask him flat out if the hammers have been needled. If they have, its not a bad thing mind you, thats one of the things that is sometimes done to voice a piano. Its just that, once you punch a hole in that felt, you can't undo it. It could be that thats why he's offering to harden the hammers. Hardening is done by applying an acrylic to the hammers felt.
Roel
That SMART guy.
Ok, I kinda get it. If they've been needled and it sounds good, then it's a good thing. And if that's the reason for the highest octave sounding less good, then I know it's not the strings. So the hardening is not a good idea? Other ideas?
TexRoadkill
Audio Bum
Do you know any piano techs? It would be worth it to pay somebody $50 to check it out for you and give you an estimate on any setup costs.
Like any instrument a piano is only as good as it has been setup to be. A master tuner can make a big difference in the tone and action. There are a lot of adjustments that can be made. If the wood is in good shape you are probably ok.
One thing to check is that the piano is tuned properly and not a half step down or anything. Older pianos that werent tuned regularly will sometimes not be able to be tuned to spec because the harp wont be able to stand the tension. Same as an old guitar. Not a big deal if you just play the piano by itself but something to consider.
Like any instrument a piano is only as good as it has been setup to be. A master tuner can make a big difference in the tone and action. There are a lot of adjustments that can be made. If the wood is in good shape you are probably ok.
One thing to check is that the piano is tuned properly and not a half step down or anything. Older pianos that werent tuned regularly will sometimes not be able to be tuned to spec because the harp wont be able to stand the tension. Same as an old guitar. Not a big deal if you just play the piano by itself but something to consider.
Roel
That SMART guy.
Ok, I'll take my pitch fork. I'll ask to which pitch it is tuned, standard or not. Probably is. I already played a few 2nd hand piano's, none of them was setup as good as this one. Even the new piano's at the shop I went before this one were not setup that good. I was really amazed...
Don't know any piano techs... Really a pitty. I'll hear around some more. Good idea...
I'll ask to which pitch it is tuned, standard or not. Probably is. I already played a few 2nd hand piano's, none of them was setup as good as this one. Even the new piano's at the shop I went before this one were not setup that good. I was really amazed...Don't know any piano techs... Really a pitty. I'll hear around some more. Good idea...