Built in limiter?

[Bulls Hit]

When I bounce to tracks in GT3, the resulting stereo track never goes above 0db, even if the source trackes/buses were overshooting. The resulting waveform also has that busy compressed look about it.

Is there a automatic limiter in action here, or some other dark forces at play?

 

[mixsit]

...the source trackes/buses were overshooting. The resulting waveform also has that busy compressed look about it.
Is there a automatic limiter in action here, or some other dark forces at play?

You bet there is. The waveform tops are clipped off. There is no level above zero going into or out in digital. (There is the exception of levels above zero within the mixer, but even that has to be brought back down before it goes out the soundcard.
Wayne

 

[Qwerty]

Not limiting, clipping.

Bad.

Q.

 

[Bulls Hit]

So should I be able to hear this clipping?

As in click, pop, scratch?

 

[Middleman]

So many answers here...

Do you have any plug ins on the master buss?
What"s the soundcard?

 

[Qwerty]

So should I be able to hear this clipping?

As in click, pop, scratch?

In general yes, although you might get lucky depending upon the signal source. If you zoom into one of the peaks, you would probably see the top of the waveform is essentially one straight line up until the point where the peak begins to drop back down.

All the information above that peak, (ie. the missing, nice, typical curve), has been thrown away. Whether that sounds like a fart, a sizzle, a digital blip, or nothing noticeable depends on your ears, monitors, signal source and luck.

Why don't you pull down the output buss levels a couple of dB on each track and compare what you hear? Turn the volume up on the second track to compensate for level differences. The second one should sound more clear and clean since it won't have the same digital clipping.

Q.

 

[Bulls Hit]

So many answers here...

Do you have any plug ins on the master buss?
What"s the soundcard?

No no plugins on the master bus.

The card's a 44.


Qwerty - the reason for the question was I was trying for a way to get the final wav file to be louder without compressing the life out of it.

If I record my project out to a casette tape, I can up the levels on the tape deck until the peaks are around +3db and the tape sounds good with no distortion.

If I create a wav file of the same project, I can't do that and I don't seem to have the option of boosting the volume, without compressing. I thought I could get tricky by routing the bounced and original tracks to different buses, and then creating a wav out both of them together. Stupid I know

 

[Qwerty]

....If I record my project out to a casette tape, I can up the levels on the tape deck until the peaks are around +3db and the tape sounds good with no distortion.

Yep - that's the essential difference. Tape you can push as hard as you like and it will just saturate more as opposed to digital which will just sound more and more harsh and 'clippy'.

You are right in attempting to raise the individual track levels prior to mix down. You are also correct in attempting to use a compressor to do the trick. What it sounds like you are not doing is adding a peak limiter after the compressor at the individual track or bus level.

Any setting you dial in on a compressor is not (normally) going to be set to have an attack time of "0"... You always (normally) let some of the transient through to retain the proper dynamic balance of the individual notes. So, the body of the notes get compressed, the compressor then applies however much make-up gain and all the while your transient peaks are being ignored by the compressor and have been made louder by the make-up gain.

If you slap a peak limiter on after the compressor set to only catch the most extremely high signal and then let it go really quickly, you will be able to raise the level without peaking off your head.

Apply that logic at a track/group level, then at a bus level and finally at the master bus stage. Do that, make sure nothing is hitting the red anywhere in the chain and it should sound both loud and good.

Once you have that exported to a single stereo .WAV file you can bodge it up even louder in an attempt at home 'mastering' using judicious amounts of the same process.

Ciao,

Q.