Building Project Studio

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gharris

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Hey guys. Glad I found this place. Been getting some great info. In my last house I built a project studio in the basement but made some mistakes that I do not want to repeat in my new one. I'd like to get some input from everyone. In the old studio I used double sheet rock, 2 doors, sound sheetblock under the drywall and floor, and then made the mistake of carpeting and putting in Hi Hats....

Obviously the high hats defeated the entire purpose of sound proofing.

Although this basement is much bigger, I have only allocated a small space for the studio. The main room is 11 x 10 with 8ft ceiling, and the iso booth I am planning will be 6 x 7. I have attached a layout.

Here are my questions to you all. For the main room, I plan to hang acoustical tile. What are your thoughts on keeping the sound in? I can't drywall the ceiling. Should I put insulation between the joists?

What about lighting? Are track lights the way to go? In there a problem with flourescent?

I ran a floex duct off the main duct in the basement for air. Also, there is a bean from left to right down the middle.

What are your thougs on one of the Aurolex Kits? WIll this make a big difference in the sound quality and reduce the waves?

The walls are bare drywall now. Should I just paint and hand tiles?

Now for the ISO room. I will be putting a glass window door inbetween the ISO and the main room. What do you suggest this be? Double Pane? Is there something special I should get? Also, what is the best thing to put on the walls of the ISO room? I assume I want to cover 100% of the wall and ceiling space in there.

Now for the floors, I was going to just use some Home Depot hardwood do it yourself stuff. Gotta be better than carpet right?

I appreciate any input you may have. I have read through a lot of posts and you guys know your stuff.
 

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Dude that looks like it'll be real nice,.. definately do double paned glass,.. definately
 
I was hoping to get some input from everyone....

Here's my main issue. I decided to drywall the ceiling. What should I put above it inbetween the joists?

Also, all of the walls except one have concrete around them and are underground. The one wall that does not is already built. Any suggestions on soundproffing as much as possible without pulling down the drywall?

Please someone give me some help. You all seem to have a lot of great input.
 
Need more info in order to help here - which part of the house is over the studio, and what kind of flooring does it have, tile, carpet, ??? Exactly how is the floor framed, and what sheathing on top of the joists?

The wall that's already built (drywall) do you know if it is framed with steel studs or wood? What exactly is on each side of the studs?

Is the door already in? Hollow core or solid?

Are you going to be tracking Death Metal drums at two AM with a baby trying to sleep upstairs, or???

Closest neighbors ? Friendly? Rockers?

Go here -

http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html

click on STC charts, and scroll to the bottom for some ideas on floor/ceiling treatments.

When you find out the answers to the above, post back for the next round.

BTW, the dimensions of your control room are about as good as it gets for that size room - the modal response is as even as you could ask for in a small room, so that's at least one bit of good news... Steve
 
Thanks for the help...

The room above is the laundry room. All bedrooms are on the floor above that so I am not at all worried about the sound reaching the bedrooms.

We do have a bedroom in the basement where our nanny sleeps so I would like to keep as much out of there as possible.

Most important is that I can hear every sound from people walking above, and especially when the laundry is running. I want to do as much as possible without spending alot of $$ and time. Floor of the room below is plywood with vinyl flooring. The ceiling of the studio is the joists and bare plywood. I also need to add that there is a steel beam across the room which I framed with pine.

The wall that is built is wood studs with 3/4" plywood on each side. Right now when the kids play in the basement, I hear everything throught that wall and door. The door is an interior hollow door which I will be replacing.

The ISO room has 2 concrete walls which I plan to put furring strips on and then the sheetrock. The other 2 walls are one with metal studs which still has one side open (the side facing the iso), and wood studs with an open face.

Music will be just electronic stuff, and guitars. No heavy stuff at all. Neighbors are not an issue.

Thanks for the input you can provide...
 
For the Nanny problem, I'd need to see the rest of the basement floor plan with wall details.

For the laundry room noise, go to the SAE site mentioned above, and check out the next-to-last illustration. This is what I would do, except that BEFORE you put the insulation/RC/2 layers of 5/8 sheetrock, I'd also glue two snug-fitting layers of sheet rock between each joist (right up against the plywood floor), caulking with acoustic caulk (or at least a non-hardening butyl, if you can't find the acoustic) - this will add mass to the upper floor layer which will help isolation quite a bit. Then, the insulation and 2 sheet rock on Resilient Channel, again well-caulked, and you've got a good start.

For the impact/vibration noise from the washer/dryer, you can get some 1/2" to 1" rubber or neoprene and use contact cement to glue pads to the feet of each unit. This will dampen the structure-borne sound quite a bit, and the other construction techniques should finish the job. If the washer drain is hard-plumbed, I'd change it to a rubber hose to cut down on plumbing vibrations.

The already built wall of 3/4" ply has three main problems - not enough mass, probably NOT hermetically sealed, and no isolation between opposite sides. Hollow core doors only have an STC rating of about 17-18, so that should be the first thing to do there. Adding mass to one or both sides of the wall will be marginally effective because of the lack of isolation between sides. If there is any way you could use the plywood for workbenches and re-do that wall in drywall with Resilient Channel on one side, it would make quite a bit of difference. Without an airlock and double doors though, I doubt if doubling the drywall would be worth it.

On the subject of doors, John's old SAE site has some good illustrations - go to the site (link in earlier post) then click on construction, then doors/windows, and scroll down.

On the iso-room walls, I'd use RC over the furring strips, fiberglas batt insulation between the furring strips, before putting up the drywall. This will help make the room less boomy, due to more flexing of the inner wall acting somewhat as a bass trap. Same with the other walls that have only one side done at present. Fill with insulation, RC, then drywall.

If the ceiling is common between the two rooms, you will get some flanking noise borne along the ceiling drywall panels - however, with the type of music you're talking about I doubt if it will be noticeable - plus, it can be kind of tricky to isolate things like that and still get structural integrity.

When you can, post a floorplan of the basement and I'll try to tackle the Nanny (sorry, I mean the noise) ... Steve
 
Thanks for the help.

The nanny is on the other side of the basement. As long as I can get that one wall and door sealed somewhat, it should help.

2 of the walls of the iso room are concrete and underground. Do you thing I need RC and insulation on those? I also plan to put something on the sheetrock to deaden the room.

What's your thought on doing isulation, sheetrock and a hung ceiling below with some of that soundproofing padding over the tiles?
 
If there's room, I would fur out the concrete walls at least 2", more if possible, and put insulation, RC and sheetrock. Just a single layer of rock though, the reason for this is to soften the rigidity of the concrete and provide some needed bass trapping. solid concrete doesn't give enough and will add to the excessive bass in the room.

After the rooms are soundproofed, you will need various treatments inside to balance out the response - if you use carpet, especially with pad, you probably won't want much more upper frequency deadening as carpet does plenty of that without affecting the lower bands.

As to the last question, it sounds to me like you're talking about a triple leaf ceiling. If you could post another picture it would make it easier to comment... Steve
 
The ISO room will probable be treated with foam throughout. I was also thinking of putting the rigid foam insulation under the sheetrock. Do you really think that is necessary if I will be putting aurolex or some similar foam inside the room?

I will be putting a wood floor down in both rooms and was planning on the Aurolex Romminator or the RPG "Studiio in a Box".. Any thoughts on this?

Here is a link:

http://www.silentsource.com/diffusors-rpg-siab.html

Also, for the ceiling I plan to insulate, sheetrock and then hand a ceiling alittle below with some sound proofing ceiling tiles. Gotta keep the cost down.

Thanks
 
First, rigid FOAM insulation is NOT the same as rigid FIBERGLAS insulation - I don't have any actual figures on the foam insulation, other than hearsay that it is pretty much useless for sound treatment.

Second, unless you just like the look of all that studiofoam stuff, I'd stay away from it unless you absolutely can't find a source for the rigid fiberglas. The fiberglas board has better absorption at lower frequencies, and is generally better balanced in its absorption characteristics than foam. The rigid fiberglas is also cheaper than any but the cheapest studiofoam, and is a lot safer when it comes to fire rating.

Third, if you completely foam your iso-booth it will still have bass problems, since even the 4" foam quits at about 500 hZ or so. So you will need to plan for bass traps in both rooms - see this site for some good ideas -

http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html

click on absorbers in the left column, then click the low frequency tab for some ideas on bass traps.

Next - keep in mind that things you put BEHIND the wallboard don't have the same effect as those that go in FRONT of the wallboard. For the most part, insulation that is placed inside a wall, assuming that the wall needs to be as soundproof as possible, should ideally be at a density of between 2.5 and 3 pounds per cubic foot according to US Gypsum's Sound control manual - they did several tests, and found that less density let more bass through, and more density caused more mid/highs to pass through. You can get rockwool insulation that is the right density, and it's either US Gypsum or Owens Corning, forget which at the moment, that has what they call SAFB's, which stands for Sound Attenuating Fire Blankets that are available in that weight.

For surface treatment, which has nothing to do with sound PROOFing, the most economical treatment that works is rigid fiberglas (not foam) covered with almost any fabric you can breathe through (controls shedding of glass fibers) and these panels, regardless of whether they are 1,2,3, or 4" thick, work better at lower frequencies if they are stood off the wall a few inches.

As a comparison, first realize that the Silend Source $400 package is class B fire retardant, which will burn quite well and overcome you with fumes if given half a chance - the class A stuff, same exact coverage, is over $800. For that price, you get 112 square feet of coverage. The same coverage using 2" 703 rigid fiberglas board should run about $175 or so, plus the cost of the cloth covering. If you don't use fire-rated cloth, there are treatments for fire retardance - check out these guys

http://www.natfire.com/

It's a matter of taste as to which looks better, but I personally don't really care for the look of all that foam - I think you can make the fiberglas/cloth thing look much more sophisticated, plus it's cheaper, safer, and works better.

In fact, the only advantage I can see to using foam is that you don't have to know anything about building, and it's quicker to get in place than building your own absorbers. Oh, BTW, most of the foam outgasses for quite a while, and the fumes aren't real healthy to breath. So, if you air it out long enough after taking it out of the packing, there goes the time advantage.

As to the ceiling idea of "insulate, sheetrock and then hand a ceiling alittle below with some sound proofing ceiling tiles" - this will, in conjuction with the floor layer above, create a "triple leaf" partition. It will cost more and give less sound-proofing than using the same or less materials a different way. Check out this thread

http://www.homer.com.au/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=86

paying particular attention to John Sayer's STC diagram posted on Mar.2, then my observations posted on Mar. 17, for a better idea of wall design vs. performance. I know these are walls and not ceilings, but the principle is the same. You are much better off building a partition with only two masses, with only one air space in between. When you read the thread you'll see what I mean.

If you want to do a suspended ceiling, fine - but I would do it without the separate sheet rock layer, and if using a 2' x 4' grid I would glue a 5/8 layer of sheet rock behind the layer of "sound board" for each section, making sure to use sticky-sided weatherstrip for each panel to rest on in the T-grid - even so, it would cost less (or about the same) and give better sound isolation to just put two layers of 5/8 sheet rock on Resilient Channel mounted directly on the bottom side of the floor joists, with 6" insulation batts above. This way, you have the increased mass of two layers of rock in conjunction with the upstairs floor plywood, and two more layers of rock under the joists mounted on the channel for de-coupling. That should eliminate any of the noise now being enjoyed downstairs.

The wood floor idea is a good one - generally too much high frequency absorption gets put into rooms in the form of carpet, drapes, foam, etc, and you get an uneven absorption leaving the room sounding dead but boomy.

To catch a couple of your earlier questions I missed - track lighting is a good way to go - I never use flourescents in a studio except for work lights, and never leave them on when actually using the studio. Too much hum generation. Also, rather than use dimmers, most of which generate lots of RF interference, I added clips to the front of my track lights for colored gels, available from any theatre supply, or from Music Emporium in Rockville, Md., and probably several other mail order music stores. Sets any mood you want just by changing gels.

If possible, any wiring in the studio should be surface mount to avoid wall penetrations. Even a small gap will lower the wall STC by 10 points or more.

If you really have to have a window in the door, get at least 3/8 or 1/2" glass, preferably one of each, keep the window as small as possible, and make both panes (one on each side of the door) airtight using caulk or compressed neoprene mounts.

If you can stand it, sometimes it makes more sense to get inexpensive surveilance cameras and monitors rather than degrade the sound performance of the door.

Gotta go for now, more questions to answer... Steve
 
I found some 1" Sem-rigid fiberglass like the Owens 703. Do I want faced or unfaced? I think the faced has foil. I assume I do not want the foil since I will be covering with fabric.

Also, is there a big difference in 1" or 2" do you think?

Greg
 
For most applications you would want the un-faced board - when you space the board off the wall, you get double duty absorption, sort of - the sound gets attenuated going thru the board, then bounces off the wall and gets attenuated more coming back. The farther off the wall, the lower the frequency. The thicker the board, the more attenuation.

Also, when both thicknesses are placed against the wall, the 2" will absorb more at lower frequencies. This is almost ALWAYS a good thing.

I haven't seen tests of the foil-backed board, but Everest has a chart or two in the Master Handbook of Acoustics that shows the difference between putting Kraft-facing IN or OUT in at least one application - basically, low end isn't changed much (if at all) but you get less absorption at higher freq's - one use for this would be in a "gobo" you could use the faced stuff so one side of the gobo was brighter, say for putting toward a drum kit if you want the cymbals brighter... Steve
 
So I found some OC 703 nearby. Now what? I'm thinking of building 2 x 4 panels. Do I need to frame the stuff before I cover with Fabric?

I am planning to do the whole ISO room / vocal booth with it. What do you suggest on the ceiling. Since I am doing a drop ceiling in there as well, should I just put some 2 x 2 foam on the tiles? Also, I had already put the rigid foam insulation in the iso room. Should I cover with drywall before placing these panels? I am not too concerned about sound leakage in there. 2 walls are undergroubd concrete and nothing is behind the other. The one wall that shares with the main studio room I will be doing a double wall...

Also, for the main room. Do you think putting these panels on the back wall and on the back of the door should be sufficent?

I was considering this kit or the RPG one..

http://www.primacoustic.com/Accoustics/03_ControlRoom.html

Can this replace the back wall stuff? Is it as good as the foam?
 
Also, do you think it matters if the fabric is Burlap, Cotton or a Poly mix?
 
There are people that will tell you it matters.... some other board, I forget where.

Personally, I would go with a flame retardant poly.

Burlap looks like hell, and cotton's gonna be a dust magnet.


As far as your walls panels go; would you consider building something like these?:
http://johnlsayers.com/Studio/PDF Files/Variable_Bass_Absorbers-diffusors.pdf
Those are John Sayer's Varible bass trap/diffusers.
The 703 you have would work out very nicely where the detail calls for "insulation".
You can see a picture of the completed units here:
http://johnlsayers.com/Studio/Pages/update_6.htm
in the piano room at Left Bank Studios

I plan on using (with John's permission) these units for the walls in my new studio.
For the ceiling, I'm going to use something similar, but not varible.
It'll be a curvilinear diffuser/low frequency trap.
 
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Greg,

> Do I want faced or unfaced <

If the goal is to absorb low frequencies using fiberglass only (not inside a membrane trap), the faced type beats the unfaced hands down every time. Have a look at my Acoustics article, and find the table that compares foam and faced fiberglass:

www.recording.org/users/acoustics

With the faced side out there's still absorption at mids and highs, or flip it around and absorb the mids and highs even more. The big advantage to placing the facing outward is you can put up enough material to properly treat the low frequencies but without killing all the mids and highs. So in the big picture, the facing is a good thing in all cases!

> I was considering this kit or the RPG one. <

If you're willing to do it yourself, as implied above, you'll save a ton of money and get much better performance with faced 705.

--Ethan
 
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Thanks Ethan... Yes I plan to build myself. I already ordered the unfaced 703.

I'm reading your article now.
 
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