Building Permits

  • Thread starter Thread starter Velvet Elvis
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Velvet Elvis

Velvet Elvis

Ahh humma humma humma
Hey all...

I just talked to my local building department and as a home owner I actually have to pay $20 to take a 1 hour test for ANY electrical work (I just want to add *one* outlet to an existing circuit)... as well, then I have to get a $15 electrical permit and have the work inspected.

I was looking at the city's site and it would ALSO appear that I need permits (and I'm guessing tests) to change ANY ducting on HVAC, put up ANY walls or structures (even non-load bearing) etc.

Did you all (Michael, Bruce, Frederic etc) have to get a bazillion permits for each leg of your studio?

Velvet Elvis
 
Did you all (Michael, Bruce, Frederic etc) have to get a bazillion permits for each leg of your studio?

Permits? For what? My studio was like this when I moved in three years ago :D
 
Velvet,

This is what i consider normal.

In CT i have the right to wire - they don't have the right to make me take a test - however any work adding to or modifying anything in the house does require permits.

Permits are NOT required for routine maintainence.

S0 you don't need a permit to repair drywall - or replace a duplex receptacle - or replace insulation for a pipe or duct -

But you do in order to add that new outlet - add a duct run - frame a wall, etc.

Each of the seperate disciplines (Structure - Electrical - Plumbing - HVAC) all require seperate permits.

For home systems you don't need "tests" - just inspections.

You get into tests with large systems, depending on what's involved.

The options are to do it "by the book" or to try to sneak it in.

One of the problems with sneaking it in are the possibility that a problem (i.e.: fire) occurs - at which point your insurance company says: this was done without a permit and inspections - thus we are not obligated to pay.

Also, in New Jersey (for example - other states may have similar laws)- there is a requirement for inspections of homes prior to a sale of the property - in that case people get snagged for the lack of permit and inspections - and can be forced to open up walls. ceilings, floors, to allow for missed inspections - thus incuring not only the cost of permits and inspection - plus possible fines - but also the added costs of repairs after the inspections are complete.

In CT it is actually a crime to disobey the requirements of the building codes. Not often enforced - but should they wish to make an example of someone they can make it pretty nasty.

Have fun,

Rod
 
This is for a home... and at least so far on the electrical side I have to take a one hour test "qualifying" me before they will even issue the electrical permit.

I was planning on doing some drywalling this next week too... I wonder if I need a permit for that...

holy cow... my studio might never happen at this rate.

Velvet Elvis
 
Velvet Elvis said:
This is for a home... and at least so far on the electrical side I have to take a one hour test "qualifying" me before they will even issue the electrical permit.

I was planning on doing some drywalling this next week too... I wonder if I need a permit for that...

holy cow... my studio might never happen at this rate.

Velvet Elvis

Sorry for my earlier wise-ass answer.... here in "joisey" we're required to have permits for new construction, including roofing, framing, plumbing, electrical, and repairs that tie into services. So replacing a circuit breaker requires a permit, as does repairing the sewer line that aims out towards the street.

My particular town on top of NJ law requires a permit for repairs as well, so every one of the 55 or so 2-prong outlets I've replaced in the last three years really required a permit, then a following inspection. As far as I'm concerned, the 3-prong outlets were there when I moved in since the initial home inspection didn't include outlet type, and only noted specifically large features of the home so little things like that were overlooked.

Actually, the home inspection simply noted "garage loft" on the report with no description of the room, the electrical, plumbing, insulation, crawl space, etc. its simply a "garage loft". So, my insurance company has no way of proving i've done squat to the room. My ongoing 15 relationship with Weasel, Slock, Slick and NeckBiterBaum will guarrentee that.

While I've repaired the plumbing in one spot, the only major thing I've done that could threaten the safety of the home was the massive electrical - and since I used to be an electrical contractor, and its the one thing I've done right up here, I have no worries at all that it will not be a cause of any fire. At least from installation and associated techniques. Now if the heater I have plugged into one outlet catches sawdust on fire, thats an entirely different story. Thats why I sweep around it every so often :)

If you want to be truly safe, get the permits, and do it right. Here permits for anything are $125, so if you're building a new structure, thats $125 for framing, $125 for plumbing, $125 for electrical, $125 for sufacing (sheet rock and the like), so you can go broke very quickly. But Rod is correct, they are legally required and your insurance company might not pay out God forbid something goes wrong.

I skipped the electrical permit because I used to do it for a living, and the last time the electrical inspector was here a year ago, he and I argued over grounds like you would not believe... and I almost shoved my 2000 copy of the NEC up his ass without any vasoline. But thats another story.
 
Permits for the basics aren't that bad here... but they charge per outlet etc.

I talked to the inspector and he said I wouldn't need one for the drywall because the area I'm drywalling is considered non-living space (long long story).

BUT he said I wasn't allowed to texture it "according to the notes on the original inspection"...

hmmmm.... I'm getting more and more frustrated.

Velvet Elvis
 
Velvet Elvis said:
Did you all (Michael, Bruce, Frederic etc) have to get a bazillion permits for each leg of your studio?

Velvet Elvis
Keep in mind mine's not a remodel but a whole new stand alone structure with its own foundation, HVAC, electrical, and plumbing.

The process here is to submitt a site plan of the property showing all existing buildings, set-backs, driveways and sidewalks.
You then calculate the impervious cover on your lot (before the addittion, and after).
If that's approved, then you have a submittal package that includes the site plan, floorplan, and elevations of all sides of the building.
If all thats approved, you get a general building permit.
Each of the trades that come through; Concrete, Plumbing, Roofing, Electrical, HVAC have to then pay a fee and pull a permit for that specific task.
Each of those tasks have to be inspected at various stages of construction... There's about 20 inspections in all that have to take place throughout the construction process for the City of Austin.

So... yes, I did. Do.
 
Velvet Elvis said:
I'm drywalling is considered non-living space (long long story).

BUT he said I wasn't allowed to texture it "according to the notes on the original inspection"...

hmmmm.... I'm getting more and more frustrated.

Velvet Elvis

Yeah. There's always some odd stipulations.
For instance, here the city tries to encourage the use of (natural)gas heating.
You CAN have an "all electric" house, but if you do, and have an electric water heater, its water has to circulate through a heat pump! :confused:

This is my delima:
My house uses both gas and electric, so they're both available on my property. I really just didn't want to use gas for heating the studio... its just simpler to keep it all electric, but because I want a little 3gal water heater, I'd have to use a heat pump for heat, that way the water heater could circulate through it. ??? But with a little 3gal under the counter water heater, the water would be cold by the time it reached the heat pump!

At any rate - No water heater=no heat pump.

Now, I completely advocate doing it "by the book" and "Playing by the rules" but when its all said and done, and everything's signed off - I'm putting in a little 3gal water heater! If there was an option to request a variance or waiver, I'd do it, but there isn't. Screw 'em and their mickey mouse bullshit!
 
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My house has oil heat, and we have a massive 1,000 gallon tank under the cement slab of the enclosed porch. Good place for it, huh? People apparently were stupid in 1941 ???

Anyway, the local gas company cold calls my house about twice a month now, trying to get us to convert over. I keep telling them "not interested", because the way it works around here, whoever is the first natural gas customer, gets hit with the installation charge of running the pipe down the street.

I keep telling them, run the line down the street, and to my house, and I'll convert over my stove, dryer and furnace, but they don't want to give me a free line/hookup so we stay with oil.

Our new (1 yr) furnace can run on oil, or gas. But I like oil, and even with gas (someday) I'll probably keep the tank full. See, I have a 200A autostart generator to install outside :) I just never get to it, the summers keep blowing by too fast.

Plus, moving it from the back of the garage to the outside of the house requires a forklift.
 
You want a code horror story?

Ok, let me give you a Code Enforcement horror story. This is only ONE of the reasons I left California permently.

I owned a small tract house in Citrus Heights last year, and down the street, I rented another house also, as it had a double car garage that I used for my shop, and a freind rented the house from us.
One day, a pair of gals showed up at the front door of the rental house. They were wearing bright orange T shirts with the words "CODE ENFORCEMENT" on them. They informed my friend, that they had a complaint filed with their office for a front porch light hanging from the box by the wires, which was false in the first place. When my friend, seeing "enforcement" on the shirts, asked what to do, they handed her a paper, which was a misdemeanor citation made out to me. They asked to come in, which she should have told them no, but being intimidated by the shirts, allowed them to do so.

Upon entering, one of the "officers" as they called themself, asked her if "Rick" still lived in the home. My freind, taken by surprize, told them I did not, but was a freind and caretaker of the house. Now, I had 3 prior run in's with this local gestapo department, and a couple with the NEW local police. Total assholes. This gal asking questions, then tells my friend that she "used" to be a police officer. Who actually turns out, was one of the police I had a run in with over my car parked in the driveway at the rental house. She didn't like me by the time I cleared up that situation. And now here she was as a "code enforcer", asking questions about me.

Unaware of the other "enforcer", while being interogated about me, my friend did not notice that the other "enforcer" was walking through the house, in every room, INSPECTING it. Now, I don't know about you, but last time I looked, this is America, not Russia or pre war Germany. Had I been there, it would not have happened. They wouldn't even got in the door. But here they were, inspecting a home, for code violations. Which, naturally, they found. 10 of them. If I told you what they were, you would laugh. When this gal was done, all of a sudden, they told my friend that they were citing me, for all the violations. My friend said, I didn't live there, or did not own the house. The "enforcers" laughed and said. "We know for a fact he does, and will enforce these citations with police excort if we have too."

When my friend told me that night what happened, I became infuriated. having learned the names of these "enforcers", I went to CITY HALL, to find out what the fuck was going on. This smacked of illegal search, and I was intent on hanging these pricks. First, I went to the police department, and made up a phony story to speak to the officers. By george, here they came. IN POLICE UNIFORM. That did it. They saw me, and did the fastest about face you ever seen. I was escorted with no explaination by other officers. Now I was REALLY pissed.

Knowing how this City Hall works with the police, I waited a day, to catch the head honcho at the "NEIGHBORHOOD ENHANCEMENT" program off guard. His office was in City Hall.
After asking at the front counter in the City Hall lobby, to speak to this person, I was left waiting for a half hour sitting there. A lady came out, and asked what I wanted.
After spending 10 minutes explaining the situation to her, I was again left sitting for another 15 minutes. Thats when things got hairy. As I sat there, three police officers entered the lobby, two of them with shotguns. The ones with shoguns walked up and stood beside me, one on each side facing me, and the other about 3 feet behind me. I asked what the problem was, only to be told there was NO problem. NO PROBLEM? Give me a fucking break.

Now I'm shaking from anger. But knowing there were 2 other people in offices behind me, I figured they wouldn't do a damn thing if I got up and walked out. Which I did. They followed me to the door, but they were thinking I was going to leave. I didn't. I lit a cigarette, and picked up the reciever on a pay phone outside the lobby. I called the local paper and explained what was going on. A reporter and photographer showed up in 10 minutes. Just as they showed up, I saw through the front glass door, the gal, a guy in a suit, and about 5 other people come up to the counter. I spoke with the reporters, and they agreed to follow me in. I could see the policeman off to the side, but now there were no shotguns.

As we entered, the "suit" reaches out to shake my hand. I oblidged, and introduced myself. He offered an apology for making me wait, but now, he has to leave and would accept an appointment, but did want to resolve the issue at this time. They knew whoo the reporters were. No doubt. They knew their ass was grass also. I knew it too. I was frank. I told him, that intimidation by police in a City Hall lobby was going to make great headlines. He started to squirm. I loved it. But then told him, there would be no appointment. Only a supeonea from my attorney. He got my drift. Needless to say, they were not pleased.

We left, and went and had coffee. I told the reporters the whole story. They told me it was becoming common in our community. The neiborhood enhancement department was already involed in numerous suits because of this kind of shit they were pulling, and worse. Well, within the following months untill I moved, I was pulled over 3 times, had my car searched, was issued tickets for parking too close to MY curb, and 8" in front of my own driveway. Police drove by my house EVERY day and stopped. They inspected my cars. They walked around my property. They didn't find anything so moved on.

When I finally put my house up for sale, I was visited by a local inspector, who, when asked what he wanted, replied he was there to inspect for compliance with various new ordinaces the city had passed, and since my house was up for sale, by law they had the right to inspect before it was sold. I told him to get the fuck off my property. He didn't come back. Nor did the police. They were trying to pull something and now they knew that I knew it too. I moved 6 weeks later.

As my parents STILL live there, I have since learned, the mayor, the city, police, certain inspectors, and others were involved in a massive suit that resulted in a humongous class action award to various people in the community. The neighborhood "enhancement" department was shut down, as they were a tool that local police were using to spy on people and collect information. It all came to light, because of the reporters I spoke to. To this day, it still shakes me up. I wished I had participated in the suit, but I'm just happy they got fucked good. Local codes, ordinaces, laws etc that are made by overzealous beaurocrats and police, are currently sidestepping civil rights and they get away with it by virtue of apathy, intimidation, and fear. Only by being aware of what is within your rights and fighting for it can you protect your self.

Believe me, I spent 4 days in jail from police violating my civil rights 3 years ago. That one was thrown out of court by the judge, who publicly admonished the local district attorney. But it cost me $500 in attorney fees and the police DIDN"T even show up in court. If you don't believe this stuff is taking place, look at this.

http://pub36.ezboard.com/fcopssuck97857frm2

Don't get me wrong here. I have nothing against good police. We depend on them for many things. I've just never met one. Only assholes.


In another case, earlier this year, the local child support agency DA blatently stole $30,000 from me . I just sent the proof to the Sacramento Grand Jury.
I can't wait to see the DA's face. He won't forget me either. :mad:

fitZ
 
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