Budget Mics...

[normington]

Just me setting up a really small bedroom studio, on a pretty tight budget. I need to record vocals, acoustic guitar, jembae-type drums and occasionally a string instrument. I've got an M-Audio AudioBuddy Preamp, and a Behringer FCA202 interface, neither of which are terribly good, but they do the job and they were cheap. Yay.

All I've got access to mic-wise at the moment is 5x Shure SM58s, that I borrow from the Church. I need to get one, hopefully two instrument mics to go with these, and they'll need to be versitaile enough to record the above listed instruments. The SM58s are fine for vocals, but not alot else.

To give you an idea of price range, I'm skint basically.. I've been looking at the Behringer C-2's - these are very cheap - a matched pair for RRP £54, but normal internet price is around £40. From the reviews I've read, these are pretty good mics, at an amazing price - just what I need. Although, I could afford to spend a little more money on them if it'll mean I'll get noticably higher quality recordings.

Remember, the mic quality doesn't need to be incredible because I'm running them through a cheap preamp and interface.

Any recommendations? Do the C-2's sound like a good option? Or am I worthwhile spending a little extra money?

Any ideas welcome,
Cheers,
Andy

 

[danny.guitar]

I've used nothing but budget mics (and have borrowed a few nicer ones like Audio Technica's) and the budget mics are great in my opinion.

What kind of instruments do you need to record? The SM58 will probably be fine for vocals.

If you're recording acoustic instruments, I'd highly recommend the Naiant MSH ($20-$40 a piece and very accurate) and also the Behringer ECM8000's ($50 new), but they can be slightly noisy. I recorded a sample of what it sounds like on acoustic guitar if you're interested: https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=253727

The Naiant mics are just as, if not better sounding and I can't hear any noise from them.

But what I would recommend more than anything is at least a couple absorber panels to put behind or around the mics when recording. Even one 4" panel can make a night & day difference when using an omni mic.

http://www.atsacoustics.com/cat--ATS-Acoustic-Panels--100.html

You can hear a few of my older songs that were all recorded using either the Naiant mics or the Behringer:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=561665

 

[normington]

Wow, the Behringer sounds great. The thing that struck me about the C-2s is the fact that I'll get a matched pair out of it, rather than just one mic, and they come with a stereo bar, stand adaptors and a case.

Another thing I read made me reconsider though, in that the rest of my equipment is pretty cheap stuff, and it doesn't add much color to any of the sounds at all, so far I've used it. So maybe a small diaphragm mic isn't the best option. I've read that large diaphragm mics will give the sound more color and depth, but are not as accurate as small-diaphragms. Should I be looking at medium or large diapragms aswell?

What would these absorber panels do? What will they make such a big difference to?

Thanks,

 

[danny.guitar]

Wow, the Behringer sounds great. The thing that struck me about the C-2s is the fact that I'll get a matched pair out of it, rather than just one mic, and they come with a stereo bar, stand adaptors and a case.

I've never used the C-2's so I can't recommend them. But the stereo bar and other accessories are good to have and it could be a good deal. A search on this board should bring up a lot of posts about the Behringer C-2, like this one:
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=249845&highlight=behringer

Another thing I read made me reconsider though, in that the rest of my equipment is pretty cheap stuff, and it doesn't add much color to any of the sounds at all, so far I've used it. So maybe a small diaphragm mic isn't the best option. I've read that large diaphragm mics will give the sound more color and depth, but are not as accurate as small-diaphragms. Should I be looking at medium or large diapragms aswell?

Large diaphragm mics are less sensitive and (usually) less accurate, but from my (very limited) experience, they usually give a smoother, and slightly more forgiving sound. With that said, for acoustic instruments like guitar I'd rather have an SDC. For vocals I'd definitely go with an LDC.

What would these absorber panels do? What will they make such a big difference to?

I can tell you this. The main reason that Behringer clip sounds good is because of the 4" absorber panel behind the mic. Before that, I was never happy with the sound. No matter how close I miked the guitar there was always a "lo-fi" sound to it. It's amazing how one thing makes such a big difference. I'd invest in at least 1 or 2 to put behind the mic. When there's no panel there it sounds a lot different and always has the "home recording" sound do it.

Note that it's also an omni mic so with a directional mic like a cardioid, hypercardioid, etc., it may not be as big of an issue.

Hopefully someone more experienced than me can chime in and offer advice.

Edit: And here's a good site to hear samples of a bunch of mics:
http://www.studioauditions.com/jamroomsessions_home.php
And this one:
http://www.thelisteningsessions.com/home.htm

 

[hairylarry]

naiant mics come matched too

Hi,

You can buy matched pairs on the Naiant mics too. I had the behri C2 mics and msh-1 Naiant mics.

The behris worked ok. They weren't as terrible as some of the things I've read about them. They are harsh in the upper mids.

Instead of the behris I much prefer the MXL 603/604 or the Audio Technica Pro 37/37r mics.

The msh1 Naiant mics are fantastic. They are omnis so they are really a different mic than the behri C2 mics.

The Naiant mics aren't just good mics for the price. They are good mics period. They do what they do as well as it gets done.

Thanks,

Hairy Larry

 

[pandamonk]

The Naiant mics are just as, if not better sounding and I can't hear any noise from them.

I'd recommend the Naiants too, not from experience, but from reviews. You can get a pair of MSH-1s for $50+$20 shipping=£33.77. They are probably a lot better than the behringers. You could also get one of the MSH-2Ts, $49(£23.64), for vocals. That'd be £57.41 total.

 

[antichef]

+1 for the Naiants - seems like the perfect choice for the situation.

 

[pandamonk]

Wow, the Behringer sounds great. The thing that struck me about the C-2s is the fact that I'll get a matched pair out of it, rather than just one mic, and they come with a stereo bar, stand adaptors and a case.

Another thing I read made me reconsider though, in that the rest of my equipment is pretty cheap stuff, and it doesn't add much color to any of the sounds at all, so far I've used it. So maybe a small diaphragm mic isn't the best option. I've read that large diaphragm mics will give the sound more color and depth, but are not as accurate as small-diaphragms. Should I be looking at medium or large diapragms aswell?

What would these absorber panels do? What will they make such a big difference to?

Thanks,

LDC(large diaphragm condensers) are good. But if you want colour then you should look at tube mics. These will b much more expensive though. The MSH-2T i recommended in the post above will give some colour, i believe.

Acoustic absorber panels help to reduce many acoustic problems, such as uneven frequency response, standing waves etc. Put simply, if you record in a small room, it'll sound like it's been recorded in a small room. This is usually a bad thing in recording. Absorption reduces the effect dramatically. It gives a dry, dead sound which means you can later add the reverb you want, if you need any.

Acoustic treat also help in a mixing environment, as it helps to give a flatter frequency response, and better stereo imaging. This is need for your mixes to translate well onto other systems. What sounds good in one room can sound terrible in another, but if you have mixed for a flat room, it should sound the best it can in each room.

I suggest you read this.

 

[pandamonk]

+1 for the Naiants - seems like the perfect choice for the situation.

There is a few reasons why they aren't. Mainly, they are cheap mics, but once you add the shipping they aren't so cheap anymore. Also, it can take upto 2 weeks to be shipped to the UK, i believe. I still think it is a good choice though.

 

[normington]

My only hesitations with the Naiants:

1 - I don't particularly like the idea of using omni mics rather than cardoids, because from what I can see and guess it'll probably mean alot more acoustic treatment and stuff, and all I want to do is be simple about it.

2 - The Behringer C-2's come with stand clips, a stereo bar, and a hard case for them too. The Naiants apparently don't.

Feel free to correct me, I could be wrong about either of these factors.

Another thing I'm starting to think about is that all is LDC's for vocals. What I have for vocals now is SM58s, which are all very well but I'm guessing a LDC would be alot better. First, a quick question before I look any deeper into it: What does it mean if a microphone has a dual diaphragm, and what are the effects compared to single diaphragms?

Does anyone have any recommendations of really really budget LDCs? Again, bearing in mind that the rest of my equipment isn't much to brag about at all, and that my room probably isn't very good in the way of acoustics (that's just a blind guess, for all I know it could be the dream room, I haven't a clue).

Thanks,
Andy

 

[tdukex]

My only hesitations with the Naiants:

1 - I don't particularly like the idea of using omni mics rather than cardoids, because from what I can see and guess it'll probably mean alot more acoustic treatment and stuff, and all I want to do is be simple about it.

2 - The Behringer C-2's come with stand clips, a stereo bar, and a hard case for them too. The Naiants apparently don't.

Thanks,
Andy

The Naiant MHS-3 is cardioid $29.

Spring clips are $5 each.

Stereo bar is $19

Total cost = $90

No, you don't get a case.

 

[normington]

The Naiant MHS-3 is cardioid $29.

...but it says it's designed for drum kit - the priority for me is recording acoustic guitar, although I will be doing drums at some points...


Just a thought - can an SM58 compete with a condenser when recording guitar or other acoustic instruments?

 

[danny.guitar]

I've never tried the cardoid MSH mics.

For what it's worth, if you liked the sound of that Behringer clip...it was just an omni mic infront of a single acoustic panel, there's no other treatment in my room. But to mic further back it will take some more panels. Probably 2 more on the side of the mic. So maybe a cardioid will be your best bet. It's up to you.

The C-2's do come with a stereo bar and that helps. But I can't say how good the mic sounds. I'd personally rather have a better sounding mic than a not-so-great mic and a stereo bar to put the not-so-great-mics on.

I'd at least find some audio samples of the Behringer C-2 or read a lot more reviews before buying them.

 

[danny.guitar]

Just a thought - can an SM58 compete with a condenser when recording guitar or other acoustic instruments?

No. I've used the SM57, but I'm not sure the 58 is much different. For one, it has a tailored response for vocals. Also, it's got a pretty limited frequency response only up to ~15KHz. The SM57 was not suitable for acoustic guitar, unless you want a darker sound (too dark for my tastes).

 

[normington]

No. I've used the SM57, but I'm not sure the 58 is much different. For one, it has a tailored response for vocals. Also, it's got a pretty limited frequency response only up to ~15KHz. The SM57 was not suitable for acoustic guitar, unless you want a darker sound (too dark for my tastes).

Ah well fair enough then, that clears that up. I can pretty confidently say that an SM58 is an SM57 once you take the grille and windshield off, apart from the slight differences that tailor it for vocals...

 

[normington]

Also, can someone tell me what it means if a mic has a dual diaphragm? And what it does to the sound, compared to a single diaphragm?

 

[tdukex]

The Naiant MHS-3 is cardioid $29.

...but it says it's designed for drum kit - the priority for me is recording acoustic guitar, although I will be doing drums at some points...


Just a thought - can an SM58 compete with a condenser when recording guitar or other acoustic instruments?

It's a cardioid condenser. The right angle design is for easy placemet on drumkits, but it will work just fine on acou guits.

An SM57 or SM58 is not a good acou guit mic.