Bridge pins on acoustics

mjbphotos

mjbphotos

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I guess that's what you call them - the (usually plastic) pegs that hold the string into the body at the bridge.

Anyone else changed over to wood ones? I changed over my Fender CD140SCE pegs for Boxwood ones. Is the sound any better? Hard to tell. I do seem to feel more vibration of the low notes in the guitar body itself.

I see graphite and ebony ones available. Wondering if its worth swapping out out the pins on any of my other acoustics (or on the Taylor when it arrives).
 
personally I don't think they affect the sound very much .......... maybe a little so if you're going for that last tiny bit of improvement then maybe so.
But think about it ..... first off, you're not sure than changing to wood pins made any difference at all. You think it might have but that means that the change (if any) is so small you're not even sure there is one.

Also ..... logic rears it's head here .... the bridge pins are actually holding a non-vibrating part of the string. If everything is perfect (which it never is but ... ) the strings' vibration stops at the bridge.
So it's not like when you change a bridge which is the actual material that transmits vibrations to the bridge plate and then the body. The pins don't do that.

So my opinion is that it's unlikely to make much difference.

I hope muttley weighs in on this.
 
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You got that a little off track there Lt. The bridge pins and the bridge is the point at which energy is transferred to the top and is vital to the tone and balance of an acoustic guitar. I always use ebony or rosewood pins because they cost about the same. Does the choice of material affect tone? Possibly. What is far more important is having a really good fit for the pin and the string. To do the job properly you need a reamer the same taper as the pin and a little but of care. I always ream out a dummy bridge plate for each pin and set a depth on the reamer so I don't go too far. The taper on the pins I get is the same but the diameter at full point is not.

Ultimately a well fitted bridge pin will sound better regardless of material. A sloppy fit can have a marked impact on balance and tone. They kind of secure and couple the bridge, bridge plate, string and the top.
 
muttley600 said:
You got that a little off track there Lt. The bridge pins and the bridge is the point at which energy is transferred to the top and is vital to the tone and balance of an acoustic guitar. I always use ebony or rosewood pins because they cost about the same. Does the choice of material affect tone? Possibly. What is far more important is having a really good fit for the pin and the string. To do the job properly you need a reamer the same taper as the pin and a little but of care. I always ream out a dummy bridge plate for each pin and set a depth on the reamer so I don't go too far. The taper on the pins I get is the same but the diameter at full point is not.

Ultimately a well fitted bridge pin will sound better regardless of material. A sloppy fit can have a marked impact on balance and tone. They kind of secure and couple the bridge, bridge plate, string and the top.
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thanks ...... I didn't actually address the 'fit' issue nor did that really occur to me. But I still don't see how pin material (other than how it might relate to 'fit' ) could have much effect. Even though the pins are what holds the string in pace ...... isn't the bridge itself the place where the vibrations make the transfer?
It doesn't seem to me that there should be any vibrations making it all the way to the pins.
 
Lt. Bob said:
thanks ...... I didn't actually address the 'fit' issue nor did that really occur to me. But I still don't see how pin material (other than how it might relate to 'fit' ) could have much effect. Even though the pins are what holds the string in pace ...... isn't the bridge itself the place where the vibrations make the transfer?
It doesn't seem to me that there should be any vibrations making it all the way to the pins.
Click to expand...

Yes you are correct in that. The main thing about about the material, and remember I qualified how much difference it mat make, is that mass to stiffness ratio is king with all things acoustic. When we scallop braces or selectively tune the top by removing material what we are doing is to adjust the mass in relation to the stiffness. That relates to the bridge in that the collective mass and stiffness of the bridge is important. Changing from a plastic/bone/wood peg will affect the tone and will affect the projection. How much is a crap shoot... You just cant tell.

One thing is certain and that is that all the tone of your acoustic comes through the bridge and the way it moves. It's mass, it's stiffness, it's ability to release energy from the string into the top. A good fitting peg is essential, the material is a matter of choice. Sure all the other stuff counts but one of the key things when voicing an acoustic is the bridge and how it allows the top to move. I choose ebony or rosewood pins because they are no more expensive and they look better. I have heard fantastic guitars with plastic pins.
 
And if you sprinkle a bit of talcum powder on them before you put them in.. they come out more easily next time. Not to mention smelling baby fresh....:laughings:
 
muttley600 said:
Yes you are correct in that. The main thing about about the material, and remember I qualified how much difference it mat make, is that mass to stiffness ratio is king with all things acoustic. When we scallop braces or selectively tune the top by removing material what we are doing is to adjust the mass in relation to the stiffness. That relates to the bridge in that the collective mass and stiffness of the bridge is important.
.
Click to expand...
while I'm asking questions ....... removing or adding mass.... would that also affect the resonant freq?
 
Lt. Bob said:
while I'm asking questions ....... removing or adding mass.... would that also affect the resonant freq?
Click to expand...

Yes thats why you do it. Shaving bracing or thicknessing the top adjusts the fundamental frequency and all harmonic frequencies while the mass per unit volume stays the same. It's what is commonly called voicing or plate tuning. It's alchemy based on science but after years of doing it you get a feel for where you want to be by flexing and tapping the top as you go.
 
Ooooh, good thread, I've thought about posting the same question. I have a twenty five year old acoustic and the pins are actually pretty ragged and I've been thinking about replacing them. I just have plastic pins now, any recommendations?

The guitar is so worn out I've had the first three frets replaced and the neck has grooves worn in it.
I could buy any guitar I want, but I have a sentimental attachment to it.
 
You might want to get some one you trust to look at it. As I mentioned the fit of the bridge pin is more critical than the material. On an old guitar very often I would do quite a bit or work on the bridge plate as well as that is where the wear and tear is and often you cant see it. The strings dig into the bridge plate and eventually you need to repair that as well. Simply swapping pins is rarely effective as the taper should be the same and the fit good. Get a luthier you trust to look at it. He or she would advise you without cost. Any doubt about what they tell you report back.
 
I gonna go ahead and assume you are opposed to the trick of putting an old ball-end on your strings. I started doing that years ago to get the string "tails" off my saddle.

I swapped out the original plastic Martin bridge pins years ago for ebony pins. They were purposefully made a bit oversized so you could sand them to fit *more* ;) correctly.

Also, when I put the strings and pins into the bridge I try to use the minimum amount of pressure on the pin itself and pull the string up tightly to wedge it against the bridge plate.

Fire at will for effect.
 
muttley600 said:
You might want to get some one you trust to look at it. As I mentioned the fit of the bridge pin is more critical than the material. On an old guitar very often I would do quite a bit or work on the bridge plate as well as that is where the wear and tear is and often you cant see it. The strings dig into the bridge plate and eventually you need to repair that as well. Simply swapping pins is rarely effective as the taper should be the same and the fit good. Get a luthier you trust to look at it. He or she would advise you without cost. Any doubt about what they tell you report back.
Click to expand...
I don't know if you're replying to me or the OP, but I will take it to the store that has worked on my guitars and that we get our kids instruments from. They excel at service and that's how they've managed to stay in business in today's internet/GC world.

Again I really don't think it's a problem as of yet, but I've changed the strings hundreds of times and the pins are ragged.
 
acidrock said:
I don't know if you're replying to me or the OP, but I will take it to the store that has worked on my guitars and that we get our kids instruments from. They excel at service and that's how they've managed to stay in business in today's internet/GC world.

Again I really don't think it's a problem as of yet, but I've changed the strings hundreds of times and the pins are ragged.
Click to expand...

Comment was aimed at your post. Sure if you trust them let em take a look but if it aint broke no need to fix it.
 
muttley600 said:
Comment was aimed at your post. Sure if you trust them let em take a look but if it aint broke no need to fix it.
Click to expand...

It's one of those things where I'm so used to the sound of it I wonder if it would sound better if I changed them.:confused:

I don't want him to fix it too much, oddly enough I like higher action on my guitars and most people who have tried playing my guitar tell me it's too high.:rolleyes:
 
The points at which the strings join the guitar are vital. Neck nut and the bridge.

Most important would be the quality of the woods during manufacture, and the way the guitar is crafted. The neck connection to the body for example is another vital connection. The woods used need to compliment each other to produce that special resonance. It's not a straight mathematical equation.

But as someone mentioned, it is in the ear of the beholder. For example, the early 1990 Japanese Fender basses (Precision and Jazz) are highly sought after because they got the equation right. I have played deluxe American Telecaster's for $3,500 that sound like garbage, and then picked up a $900 Telecaster from Japan that really nails it.

You want to get yourself in a position where you can hear the difference when you try an instrument.

Try the new pegs and listen.
 
Meclazine said:
The points at which the strings join the guitar are vital. Neck nut and the bridge.

Most important would be the quality of the woods during manufacture, and the way the guitar is crafted. The neck connection to the body for example is another vital connection. The woods used need to compliment each other to produce that special resonance. It's not a straight mathematical equation.

But as someone mentioned, it is in the ear of the beholder. For example, the early 1990 Japanese Fender basses (Precision and Jazz) are highly sought after because they got the equation right. I have played deluxe American Telecaster's for $3,500 that sound like garbage, and then picked up a $900 Telecaster from Japan that really nails it.

You want to get yourself in a position where you can hear the difference when you try an instrument.

Try the new pegs and listen.
Click to expand...

wtf...:)
 
OK, now I am going to show my ignorance. When we were talking acoustics, I was tracking. But for the electric, what Meclazine said make little sense to me as now the pickups come into play more than wood, bridge (other than sustain) etc. So, other than action on the next, seems to me all of the things that were stated for acoustic really have little effect on an electric.
 
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