Brand New, w/ basic questions.

[Buttondown]

I've done some lurking around this and other forums trying to get an idea of what I need as a basic set up to record some songs I've written over the years. Here are some guidelines I want to go with:

1) I don't want to spend a bunch of money, but I will spend up to 8k.
2) My elementary understanding is that to record acoustic and electric guitars and a keyboard (no drums) I will need: (a) a pair of condensor mics, (b) preamps for the mics, (c) a MIDI keyboard, (d) a compressor, and (e) either a good DAW or a G5 with the right software. I realize there are other ways (infinite other ways) to go, and I don't mind suggestions.
3) I will record in my house, and I am positive my wife will not allow redecoration with acoustic material in any of the rooms.
4) This will all be done solo, so it needs to be a one-person operation.

That's it. I appreciate any and all comments.

 

[mshilarious]

2) My elementary understanding is that to record acoustic and electric guitars and a keyboard (no drums) I will need: (a) a pair of condensor mics, (b) preamps for the mics, (c) a MIDI keyboard, (d) a compressor, and (e) either a good DAW or a G5 with the right software.

You know, the stock advice is a pair of condensers, so you can do stereo recording, but you can do a lot with one mic. If I had to choose between one really nice mic and two OK mics, I'd pick the one nice mic.

Also you can live without a compressor, especially if you're just recording yourself.

You should also consider the studio-in-a-box, like the Yamahas, for example, if you aren't wedded to PC. It really depends on your personal preferences, but check them both out. PCs can be involved, and they are noisier too, which is an issue in a single room.

3) I will record in my house, and I am positive my wife will not allow redecoration with acoustic material in any of the rooms.

Sure she will, you just have to make it pretty

The best approach for a nice look that doesn't require permanent modifications is several framed 2'x4' sheets of rigid fiberglass insulation, 2" thick, faced with fabric. Most of us here are cheap bastards who use cheap fabric, but if you send the wife off to a fabric store and charge her with selecting some nice toile decorator fabrics, you'll have mini-framed tapestries that double as absorption panels.

 

[Rokket]

I second the studio in a box thing...

PC recording is cool, but it can be a nightmare to get going on.

A nice multitrack recorder (especially the Tacam 424mkIII) will have good pre amps, get you good sound, and you don't need an engineering degree's worth of knowledge to set it up and use it.

Digital 8 track recorders have come a long way, too. Some have built-in CD burners, and most of them have built-in harddrives (a word of caution there, when using condensor mics, they pick up EVERYTHING, so people report hearing the harddrive on these units in their recordings. It's the same with a pc...).

Most of them have some sort of pc interface, so that route is still available.

And as far as room treatment, for home recording, it's not really an issue. I've heard, and made great recordings in my bedroom.

 

[Richard Monroe]

The comments on curtains, etc. are dead on. Room modificaions don't have to be permanent installations. For you, I like the standalone recorder option, because you can easily move it to record in different places, in or outside of your home. There are a bizzillion options, but I'll give you a credible wish list, and keep you under 8K. Note that for every piece of equipment on my list, there are 30 or 40 alternatives.

Recorder-Roland VS2000CD $2,000- Provides a basic hard drive with a mixing board, a bunch of basic effects, metronome, CD burner, Imports and exports tracks to computer, if needed. Backs itself up on CD's.

Preamp- Toft ATC-2 $1000 2 clean channels with EQ and compression, very versatile.

A-D convertor- Lucid AD 9624 $800- Yeah, the Roland and the Toft both do A-D conversion. This box does it much better, which is critical to your sound.

Keyboard- Yamaha P-90 about $1000. 88 weighted keys, feels and sounds like a piano, Midi capable- organ, etc.

mics- one matched pair of Josephson CM42's $1000 - 1 AKG C414BXLS $800
If you can't record what you want to with those mics, I'll be very surprised.

headphones- Sennheiser HD280 Pro $100

monitors- M-Audio BX8's about $400 for the pair.


That leaves you $900 for cables, mic stands, keyboard stands, or whatever.
As I said before, I could provide similar functions with lots of other pieces of gear, but that setup will work, and it will work damn well.-Richie

 

[Dogman]

I second the "get one good mic" thing. Get the most kickass one you think you'll need, as you know you will buy another one later anyway.

 

[Richard Monroe]

If you like the one badass mic concept, skip the Josephsons and the C414 and consider one Soundelux ifet7. I believe my version is more versatile, offers many combinations, and sounds great, but the ifet7 is indeed a badass workhorse mic.-Richie

 

[aaroncomp]

I started with a Digital 8 track, but now do everything on PC. I got fairly good on the 8 track, but I've always seemed to be able to get the creative juices flowing more and arranged faster with a PC. Being able to see everything, being able to quickly change this or that. Again, merely another opinion, but I'd send everything into a PC. Along that line, I personally would save my money and get a PC, rather than a G5 - this of course is an endless debate in itself - a new PC will handle more than its share of Plugin busses, especially if we're only talking about smaller, personal projects. That saved money could purchase a UAD-1 DSP card, a WAVES bundle, or whatever plugin set/DSP card suits you (oh yeah, and a DSP card would allow your PC to have even more spare processing power).

And to reiterate things said: get nice monitors, nice headphones, a few nice mics, a nice outboard compressor (mshilarious - I think this is a must) and outboard pre(s). I'd think you could get by without much room treatment, especially since you've already gotten the thumbs down on it . Keyboard? Hmm, I've been really happy with the sounds I get on my MIDI only keyboard with some purchased sounds. Someone with more piano/keyboard savy may say otherwise on this one. Just make sure it's velocity sensitive and has touch feedback with graded weights.

And of course, nice reliable cables, accessories, etc.

 

[mshilarious]

a nice outboard compressor (mshilarious - I think this is a must) and outboard pre(s). I'd think you could get by without much room treatment

Well here's what is tough for us to say: we don't really know exactly how you work or what you record. If it's mostly acoustic instruments, I would pick room treatment over a compressor. If it's vocals, compressor over room. If it's electric guitar, you probably don't need either one.

However once you get to mixdown, I'd much rather have a good room than an outboard compressor.

 

[aaroncomp]

Well here's what is tough for us to say: we don't really know exactly how you work or what you record. If it's mostly acoustic instruments, I would pick room treatment over a compressor. If it's vocals, compressor over room. If it's electric guitar, you probably don't need either one.

However once you get to mixdown, I'd much rather have a good room than an outboard compressor.

Fair enough.

 

[Slark238]

I believe the suggested Toft ATC-2 unit is a mic pre/compressor/eq.

 

[tedluk]

Let me just throw in a plug for another Studio In A Box- Akai's DPS24. Hands down, the best SIAB on the market. It might be overkill for you, but it will allow you to grow into it. New, they're about $2800.00. Used ones (if you can find one, run around $1800.00. 24 tracks. Lots of headroom. Great preamps. Decent effects. Excellent interfacing to the outside world. And, the best user's groups I've ever seen.

HERE is a link to the web site.

THIS is the user's forum.

Ted

 

[Buttondown]

Thanks to all for the input thus far. This is a very responsive forum!

Let me interject a very basic question. If the Roland VS2000 or the Akai have XLR inputs, mic pre amps, compression, A to D, etc., are the Toft, Lucid and other units simply improvements that by-pass these functions in the SIAB? If so, why not just do directly into a computer from the A to D? Again, excuse my being as green as a Virgina meadow in May...

 

[Rokket]

Thanks to all for the input thus far. This is a very responsive forum!

Let me interject a very basic question. If the Roland VS2000 or the Akai have XLR inputs, mic pre amps, compression, A to D, etc., are the Toft, Lucid and other units simply improvements that by-pass these functions in the SIAB? If so, why not just do directly into a computer from the A to D? Again, excuse my being as green as a Virgina meadow in May...

If you want to go that route, that's up to you. Interfaces are fairly low priced, dependent on the number of inputs you want. M-Audio seems to be pretty popular, and includes the software. I personally just like the feel of pushing up the faders, so I go with the MR-8 and transfer my tracks to pc to mix...

 

[tedluk]

Well, this is a well debated topic here. If you check my posts, you'll see I've expounded on it often.

Yes, you can go directly into the computer with a soundcard (you'll need something much better than the stock one that came with the computer) and mic pres. There are a lot of different solutions out there and plenty of them sound great! But, building and configuring a DAW and keeping it running can be a fair amount of work and quite frustrating at times. I simply don't believe people who tell me that they took an off-the-shelf computer, threw a soundcard and some software into it and everything worked from the get go.

As Rokket pointed out, a lot of us want to have a hardware interface to work with. Mixing with a mouse can be done and some people actually prefer it, but a lot of us want faders and knobs.

As I've often mentioned, having both a DAW and a SIAB gives you ALL of the options. You can record and edit in either and move files back and forth. You can use MIDI. You can use soft synths. Really, there isn't much you CAN'T do. Of course, it's expensive. But equipment costs are absurdly low these days compared to when I was just starting out. The power we have available, had it even existed, would have costs hundreds of thousands of dollars when I was a kid!

So, you have to decide what you're comfortable with. If you're a computer guy and can set one up and tweak it and handle the inevitable conflicts and issues that will come up. Go for it! If you like faders and hardware and don't want to mess around configuring an OS, then consider the SIAB route. They're both viable options.

Ted

 

[Buttondown]

Don't get me wrong, I very much like the idea of an SIAB. I am just trying to draw a basic flow diagram of possible components so that I understand what all the units do and how they connect. (I realize the infinte nature of the combinations...)

So, unless I really don't understand what all of you are saying, the basic decision is around using an SIAB or not, because even if you use one, you can still use a computer and other outboard units. Is this right?

 

[Rokket]

Don't get me wrong, I very much like the idea of an SIAB. I am just trying to draw a basic flow diagram of possible components so that I understand what all the units do and how they connect. (I realize the infinte nature of the combinations...)

So, unless I really don't understand what all of you are saying, the basic decision is around using an SIAB or not, because even if you use one, you can still use a computer and other outboard units. Is this right?

A lot of the digital ones have a means (usually usb) for transferring your tracks to pc so you can mix in software. Not all of them do. And some have built-in cd burners too.