Bounce to tracks

  • Thread starter Thread starter vicevursa
  • Start date Start date
This is from the windows mixer documentation.

"To adjust the recording volume

On the Options menu, click Properties, and then click Recording.
Select the device whose input volume you want to adjust, and then click OK.
Drag the Volume slider up or down to increase or decrease the input volume. "

how it does it and whether or not it takes control of the WDM , I dont know. :)
 
dachay2tnr said:
But Vice is actually re-recording the tracks. And that does go through the sound card. (That was actually my point! :rolleyes: )
Click to expand...
Doh! I thought he was just bouncing and Exporting... ;)

Vice, do you actually take the input from the soundcard and connect it to the output? Or using What U Hear?

If it's What U Hear, than maybe it's a driver thing (again).
 
On the Sound Blaster cards, when it plays back, it is using the fader called 'wave'. There is also a record option called 'wave', so if you are re-recording the tune using the 'wave' or 'What U Hear'.. or even turn up the 'Record Master', you will be increasing the volume of the track... and in reverse... if both are set low, the track will be quiter...

Have you tried turning down the faders in the control panel and seeing what you get (ie.. based on the theory it will be much quiter and a 'smaller' waveform)

Porter
 
Ok, I have just ran a series of tests. I have moved the wave (recording) fader to different positions. When I record all selected tracks, it does in fact change the volume of the resulting wave. I then played around trying to duplicate the waveform of the recorded (mixdown) track and the Bounced track, trying to get the same results. I was unable to do so. Next, I moved the wave (recording) fader to a very low setting. I performed the bounce to track operation. It did not change the waveform. I have now concluded that the bounce to tracks method is not affected by the windows mixer. I don't know where this leaves me. I still don't know why If all things were left at the same value then everything should have played out the same.


Vice
 
If you are recording the mix back in to the project, I'm really not surprised...

If the mixdown and bounce functions made different waveforms, then I would be surprised (this is what I thought you were doing).
 
Porter said:
On the Sound Blaster cards, when it plays back, it is using the fader called 'wave'. There is also a record option called 'wave', so if you are re-recording the tune using the 'wave' or 'What U Hear'.. or even turn up the 'Record Master', you will be increasing the volume of the track... and in reverse... if both are set low, the track will be quiter...

Have you tried turning down the faders in the control panel and seeing what you get (ie.. based on the theory it will be much quiter and a 'smaller' waveform)

Porter
Click to expand...

I can completely agree with on that when it comes to re-recording the tracks to a stereo track. But with Bounce to Tracks where is my signal coming from? Why would it be quieter than the mixdown version? I guess the question I really want to know is where should the faders be set to in the Windows mixer so that all things come out the same no matter what method I choose?

Vice, do you actually take the input from the soundcard and connect it to the output? Or using What U Hear?
Click to expand...

Then let's stick a knife in the voodoo doll.
The mystery will disappear as soon as you break the signal flow into understandable bite size chunks.
What is the route from sonar main out to the new track's input?
There are a few choices.
-Sound card analog-out to analog-in with a hard wire patch, or the same thing with a digital cable, or an internal software patch.
(The channel's Input Assignment to start with...)
Click to expand...

The recording chain from source to Sonar is as follows.

Keyboards, Synths, and Drum Machine --> Line inputs channels 1-6 on mixer
Mixer's Mainouts --> Soundblaster line input
Soundblaster Line out --> Speakers
The tracks are assigned in this fashion:

In: SB Live! Wave Device
Out: A (SB Live! Wave Device)

The Vmain is Out: SB Live!

Vice
 
vicevursa said:
I can completely agree with on that when it comes to re-recording the tracks to a stereo track. But with Bounce to Tracks where is my signal coming from? Why would it be quieter than the mixdown version? I guess the question I really want to know is where should the faders be set to in the Windows mixer so that all things come out the same no matter what method I choose?
Click to expand...
Vice - when you Bounce to Tracks (or Export Audio) you are mixing everything down digitally via your software. If you want consistent, repeatable mixes, those are the methods you should use. That's also why this method was not affected by the Windows mixer - your sound card is not involved in the process.

The speculation here is that by using the method you used (re-recording your tracks), you are running the signal through your sound card again and apparently boosting the signal in the process. That's why it's louder. It's pretty much the same as if you simply increased the volume setting on your VMain.

Bottom line is re-recording is not a "normal" (or preferred) method of mixing down. I think you are a bit enamored by the fact that it's louder. As I said earlier, if the goal is louder, raise the VMain fader (or Track faders).

By using the method you are using, you are introducing a variable in the mixdown (i.e., the windows mixer) and perhaps also doing an additional D/A A/D conversion.
 
Dach, I need to tell you: You're still the master of explaining! :)

So Vice, are you actually re-recording the audio back into the project?
 
Thanks Dachay2tnr... that actually makes sense. I will try to be a little more normal. Yes, moskus, I was putting the data back into the project. I feel like a moron. Well, an informed moron, now. I will go back to the drawing board.

Thanks all of you who helped out.


Vice
 
To be clear, After I have all my audio tracks that I want to use for mix. All I need to do is either Export to wave or bounce to tracks and I'm done? That is so simple...


Vice
 
vicevursa said:
All I need to do is either Export to wave or bounce to tracks and I'm done?
Click to expand...
Yes! :)

Unless you have external equipment you need to get the sound into. Then just record those sound into your project, and then go File -> Export -> Wave.
 
We know... :D

Sorry, I'm in an insane mood today...
 
vicevursa said:
To be clear, After I have all my audio tracks that I want to use for mix. All I need to do is either Export to wave or bounce to tracks and I'm done? That is so simple...

Vice
Click to expand...
Export to Wave is probably the best method. The quality should be the same either way, but you'll eventually need to get a standalone wave file anyway in order to burn to CD anyway.

If you want to do some DIY "mastering" on it, you can either reimport it back into Sonar, or open it in another program such as Wavelab or Sound Forge.
 
Very interesting. It's good to see things got sorted out.:D

The one difference between 'Export' and 'Bounce to Tracks' is the latter puts a copy on your mix back into the project (like when you were re-recording it), where you can solo it, try final adjustments on it, ect. Also it gets saved with the project if you like. (Seems like a good thing to have...
One final note - like any track in the project, the 2-mix track is effected by effects in the V-main, and the V's volume setting. So if you 'Export' that, set the V-main to 'zero' and turn effects off, or you will hear those settings applied twice on the export.
Hey Hey!:D
Wayne
 
In his original post, Vice said that he bounced down all 13 of his audio clips. The result was a much louder wave file. Isn't this the same accumulative effect as recording a bunch of tracks? If you set your input level to a nice -2db and record 6 guitar tracks, for example, the output meters are not going to read -2db when all the tracks are played back simultaneously. It'd going to be louder. Isn't this the same thing? He had 13 tracks, all set to their individual levels, then he bounced them all to one clip. Wouldn't the accumulative levels of all the tracks together result in a louder 2-track wave clip? I dunno.

ed
 
guitar ed,

In his first post, he was comparing the difference between a Mix-Down track and a Bound to track... you can bounce multiple track to one.

When he recorded the mix down, he was recording the output's of SONAR as a new track, hence it running through the windows mixer and boosting the track volume. ie Sonar -> Wave Out -> Sound Card -> Wave In -> Sonar

Porter
 
So the answer IS!









Er















Um















Could you repeat the question













:D
 
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