Bought and Returned a Brick

[tkingen]

Point is though that the TLM103/Brick mismatch might not be a relevant problem to most users of the pre.

Tim

Tim,

Please see my post above. I goofed up!

Terry

 

[xstatic]

None of this explains the sensitivity of the gain knob problem except for what Chessrock described. Whether it's +4 or -10, the gain on the brick should still a smooth transition. Maybe that is a problem in the design of the brick, but that also shouldn't necessarily stop a person from buying one in my opinion.

 

[tkingen]

Brick Update

So, I went back to the store and repurchased the Brick. Got home, wired it up to the Delta1010 at +4...and damn, it works fine. The gain knob is behaving better.
How's it sound? In a word...great. I have a Toft ATC-2 that sounds very smooth. The Brick is more aggressive and, for lack of a better term, more "rock." It will be a nice companion to the Toft.
Additionally, I have a pair of MAudio Tampa's, which was also designed by Groove Tubes honcho Aspen Pittman. Sonically, there are similarities between the Brick and Tampa...although there are also differences. I can see a use for both. I plan to keep one of the Tampa's but will probably sell the other since the Brick is here.
Anyway, after my previous negative testimony, I just wanted to reiterate that it was all due to operator error. If you want to give the Brick a try, by all means do so. You might really like it!

Regards,
Terry

 

[XLR]

Terry, you've got integrity.

Tim

 

[rdozz]

I love the Brick / TLM-103 combo, magic on some voices.

Rob

 

[mattamatta]

Stop it! I have too much other stuff to blow my money on berfore getting cool pre's! =(

 

[goldencd]

I had a brick and have a tlm103

Running the mic through the brick into a digi002r I had the same problem as Terry. I had to stand atleast 1 foot away from the mic with the brick at its lowest level.

The connection was XLR to XLR and the 002r mic input is always at +4db
The gain was at unity...and it was way too hot. So I bought a XLR to balaned cord and plugged into the +4db line input above the XLR input on the 002r. Now it was too quite.

The phantom power was off on the 002r, so WHY was it so loud in my XLR? did the internal pre from the 002r still bump my signal?

Anyway, I took it back and am waiting for my Robbie to arrive. I hope i don't have the same problems, but atleast the Robbie has a pad if I do.

 

[mikey@thecave]

well yea you would have to turn down the 002r gain all the way

 

[scrubs]

I had a brick and have a tlm103

Running the mic through the brick into a digi002r I had the same problem as Terry. I had to stand atleast 1 foot away from the mic with the brick at its lowest level.

The connection was XLR to XLR and the 002r mic input is always at +4db
The gain was at unity...and it was way too hot. So I bought a XLR to balaned cord and plugged into the +4db line input above the XLR input on the 002r. Now it was too quite.

The phantom power was off on the 002r, so WHY was it so loud in my XLR? did the internal pre from the 002r still bump my signal?

Anyway, I took it back and am waiting for my Robbie to arrive. I hope i don't have the same problems, but atleast the Robbie has a pad if I do.

Yes, if you were going into the XLR input of the Digi, you were most likely getting a second amplification from that preamp. That's why your signal was so hot. Check the specs on the Digi XLR inputs to see how much gain they supply with the fader/knob at zero.

 

[SonicAlbert]

The connection was XLR to XLR and the 002r mic input is always at +4db
The gain was at unity...and it was way too hot. So I bought a XLR to balaned cord and plugged into the +4db line input above the XLR input on the 002r. Now it was too quite.

Did you also switch the mic/line button on the front panel of the 002R? You can still use the gain knobs when the inputs are set to line.

When you come out of a preamp your signal is at line level. You simply *do not* run a line level signal into another preamp. Recording 101.

You did the right thing when you got the XLR to TRS adapter cable, as that is correct wiring. I'm just wondering if all the settings were correct on the 002r, as the signal should have been plenty loud with the gain turned up on the BRICK.

 

[goldencd]

Thanks for all the replies.

Yes the gain was all the way down on the digi.

SONICALBERT...
would you suggest going XLR to balanced in one of the inputs into the digi without a pre, meaning inputs 5-8? Are you possibly also saying that even if the gain on the digi was all the way down, it might still get some amplification simply being plugged into the XLR mic input in the digi?

 

[SonicAlbert]

Thanks for all the replies.

Yes the gain was all the way down on the digi.

SONICALBERT...
would you suggest going XLR to balanced in one of the inputs into the digi without a pre, meaning inputs 5-8? Are you possibly also saying that even if the gain on the digi was all the way down, it might still get some amplification simply being plugged into the XLR mic input in the digi?

It's a question of sensitivity. The mic input is expecting a very quiet signal, only as loud as a mic can output. This is true no matter what the level is set by the front panel volume control. The *line* inputs 1-4 are expecting to see a signal around +4, but the *mic* inputs are expecting to see something around -50. That's a BIG difference.

So you run your mic into the BRICK and it amplifies the signal from -50 to line level, which is -10 to +4. Then you run this +4 signal back into another mic preamp on the 002r, which is expecting to see a -50 signal. Instead it's getting slammed with +4. It's overloaded. It doesn't matter whether you've got the volume knob all the way down or not---the input is overloaded.

What you need to do is run your mic to a preamp, then from the preamp output to a line level input on your 002r. Whether that is the TRS inputs 1-4 (switched to line on the front panel) or inputs 5-8 depends only on if you need the gain control that 1-4 will give you. The important thing is that the line level output from the preamp goes to a line level input on your 002r.

This is the same issue as the poster who said he took his BRICK back to the store and had the same problem with a Mackie mixer. Of course the same thing happened---the salesperson took the line level output of the BRICK into the preamp input of the Mackie. It's going to overload. Doesn't matter what the trim is or that the fader is set to unity---the *input* is overloaded. The trim and fader control the output volume of the channel, not the sensitivity of the preamp input, which is expecting a signal at -50.

On the Mackie, you have to plug a line level signal into the 1/4" jacks, not the XLR's. What happens is that when you plug into the 1/4" jacks the signal is routed through an attenuator which drops the signal back down to mic level (-50) and then sends that to the preamp where it is re-amplified, and from there to the channel strip. So if you plug a line level signal directly into the XLR jack you are bypassing the attenuator and overloading the input. Most budget mixers are designed this way, by the way.

 

[XLR]

Excellent explanation, Albert.

Clicked on the rep scales for the post but guess I gave you points recently because it won't let me.

Hey, somebody hit Al with some points for that well crafted explanation!

Tim

 

[goldencd]

The truth about the 002r..

So i called Digi and found out that through the XLR input the gain is +18db to +65, through the line it is 0 to +55. This would explain the cliping. No matter what I was running my mic through 2 preamps.

Through the brick and into a XLR input on the digi with both set to thier lowest levels it still gave me +48db of boost.

Thanks for all your input and maybe this will help others that run into the same problems.

 

[SonicAlbert]

Thanks for all the postivie rep guys! Glad I could be of help.

 

[mattamatta]

Recording is great if you do it "for fun and profit."

 

[sdelsolray]

Excellent explanation, Albert.

Clicked on the rep scales for the post but guess I gave you points recently because it won't let me.

Hey, somebody hit Al with some points for that well crafted explanation!

Tim

Rep point for Sonic added. That was a good explanation.

 

[goldencd]

Rep point for Sonic added. That was a good explanation.

not trying to be a dick,

but technically incorrect. although i gave him a rep point as well

 

[sdelsolray]

not trying to be a dick,

but technically incorrect. although i gave him a rep point as well

What's not technically correct? I'm here to learn.

 

[Reggie]

Sorry to sidestep your question, but I just wanted to put a couple cents in on the Brick. I too wish it had a pad or a lower gain at minimum. It is kind of rediculous to have that giant knob for around 30db of playroom. On vocals and guitar and just about everything it is fine and great, but for snare it overloads my RME convertors everytime. But you know what the weird thing is? It actually sounds pretty GOOD even with the clipping on the way in. One of these days I will get an in-line pad for it to be safe, or I could use another pre for snare, but I like the way the Brick sounds on snare.
Anywho...
It is a shame people will bash a good product like this because they don't know how to use it or don't understand signal flow. Even though you came back later to withdraw, who knows how many people see that initial negative comment.