Bottom line, Home recording studio

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Razorm

New member
Hi, this is my first post to hi to one and all!!

Ive finally come to a place where I am committed to getting a home studio.
Im very thankful I found this site because I "think" I'll be able to get some feedback here.

I am not without some financial means, meaning Im prepared to spend perhaps up to 100, 000.00 on a home studio

Im not pathetically rich, only a motivated person with a well paying job.

Im phobic to "waste" money, but I'm ever "more" phobic to not spend my money wisely, versus throwing it away instead.

I hear "pro tools" is the way to go for higher end systems.

Ive listened to some mp3 recordings of home studio work, and it just doesnt "cut it" for me. Seems as if Im listening to a "home recording" , which of course I am.
I want studio professional commercial play, and i want the ability, less my own ignorance doenst get in the way, which it will during the learning curse, to be able to have the "ability" or means to create top notch recordings.

Now, are there any places I can go where someone has designed a recording studio of top caliber where I can not "re create' the wheel , and thus copy it.

Im frustrated because I've checked around town and everyone has a different opinion.

Heres how stupid I am at the moment.
I dont even know what DAT means or stands for but I've seen it posted a hundred times.

Im assuming thats something analog
I need to educate myself which im Willing to do, but I want to see if someone can point me in the direction of where to begin to find out what to do.

Think of me as a wanna be tom schultz.
I need to know where to start and yes Ive read lots in here but there is so much diversity on opinions on this and that
SOme day digital
some say analog but too much hiss
some are going with computers, p 3, which I have
some are mac
Some dont even make sense..*s*..Maybe im one of those?

Ive looked at the TDM pro tools system, but is that over kill? Im just "me" recording one instrument at a time, not live drums, at least not yet cause I cant play those.
I have a pentium 5 850 chip
256 ram
windows 98
soundblaster live value card
two, 20 meg, 7200 speed hard drives
32 met asus video card
cakewalk, pro tools le
i have no AD DA converter

I have a GT-5
mesa boogie amp
two sweet guitars
and the desire to create the sounds that I hear in my head...
but I dont want to end up spending ten grand only to find out that no matter what I would have done or know, that I was limited by the limitations of equipment I could "NEVER" produce that top quality product.

Well, thanks for anyone who can help me on this
Id apprecate any thoughts , good or bad

THanks
Razor
 
OOPS ,,typo on the P 3..not P 5

that was P 3 btw

so not to get anyone set off
*s*
 
Try checking this link, though the sites not up yet (getting transferred), but hopefully it should be up pretty soon. It's about studio building and acoustics, and now once it's up in its new location it will have recording techniques also. :) A MUST for anyone considering building a studio!

http://www.lis.net.au/~johnsay/Acoustics/

Read the thread "What's up with John Sayers site?" for more details on this awesome site
 
Hey Razorm, I'm kinda a newbie myself. One thing I want to throw in is that when building a studio having a ton of money will help, a lot. But, to spend your money wisely as you wish, you will need to spend lots of time making yourself as knowledgeable as possible. After spending time on this site and others like it including books and magazines I've come to believe that knowledge in the field of recording and acoustics is just as valuable as having cash and I'd bet some would argue maybe more valuable. There's a lot to know, but luckily there are best practices and plenty of people willing to help.

All those questions you ask are perfectly valid. And I know you want a place to start. I think you've come to the right place. So I'd say before you dig into your pocket dig into the info. One book I might suggest is "The Master Handbook of Acoustics". And another important resource I would suggest is the "search" button at the top of this page. ;)

Another option you might consider if you think you don't want to go the do-it-yourself route is to find a professional studio designer to draw you up the plans for a perfect studio. Personally I think doing it yourself is better in the long run because you will learn so much from the process.

Just my two cents.
Sincerely,
Chris
 
Razorm,

From the sound of it, since you'll be recording yourself, ProTools would be serious overkill. I would recommend starting fairly small and building yourself up - it'll take less time then you think, but you'll be doing it yourself.

Do you have a room that you want to record in now? If so, I'd pick up a decent pre-amp (the Behringer Ultragain Pro is a pretty cheap, pretty decent pre-amp that I've had good luck with), a couple of SM58 mics and run the pre-amp to your line-in of your SB live. I'd download the demo of N-track (www.fasoft.com) and install that. If you've got a set of decent computer speakers or a stereo you can use those for monitors for now, or you can go out and buy a set of studio nearfields. Yorkville YSM-1s are recommended around here quite a bit (and they've got active monitors now) but the Events are supposed to be great too. Active monitors are a good choice. Set your line-out of your soundcard to feed to your speaker system of choice. Pick up a decent set of headphones and use those when actually tracking (since you don't want feedback - we're doing recording in the same room as playing - no control room yet)

That system will cost you about $800 ($300 if you don't get the monitors) and gives you a solid base to build from. The nearfield monitors are LESS dependent on having the ideal room, because they are so close to you (having a good room helps prevent reflections coming back at you, though). You will be able to record track by track (up to two tracks at once). This system would do voice, accoustic guitar (either mic'd or if it has a pickup, through the ultragain), electric guitar (probably mic the amp), keyboard (mic'd, through the ultragain or directly to the line in)

For that $300, you can start feeling out the limitations in your system and get used to the concepts of recording. And a cheap but half decent two channel pre-amp will be handy even in an expanded studio - and everyone has a couple SM58s, they are the single most common mic, so you won't have wasted any money, either.

I wouldn't go spend thousands right away, especially if you're not recording large groups. If you were doing only recording and wanted to get a rock band in to record them, I'd have to recommend something different. But to start - this setup will give you a solid foundation on which to build.

Of course, there is a lot of room for improvement in it. A new soundcard (Delta 1010 is great, apparently - love my Delta 66), more and better mics, sound proofing and conditioning, hardware control surface, CDburner, DAT recorder, 2 inch tape.... you can buy in this hobby FOREVER. But until you've started playing and actually done some recording, it doesn't seem to click, or at least it didn't for me
 
Pro tools is nice. The learning curve will kill you. Unless you are willing to drop $10,000 just for the software and a sound card. The software is soooo powerfull if you know how to use it, otherwise it seems like a waste. Recording is tougher than you may think!
 
It sounds like an ambitious plan. But,by your own admission, there's a lot that you don't know ... so I agree with Grover. Don't go spend upwards of $100K without getting some experience first. The things you don't understand today is basic knowledge. You would not believe how much more info there is above and beyond the basic mechanics of recording. I don't know how you could spend $100k wisely without having enough experience to know what to look for. Unless you hire someone with experience to help you put it together. But, you still will have to figure out how to operate what they pick .. not really fully knowing why they picked it. Unless, you hire them to run it ... and so on.
Of course, this is just my perspective ... but I kinda did a similar thing about 4 years ago. Dumped a bunch of money into my studio (nothing close to $100k, though :eek: ) only to find that with nice equipment ... it was very easy to hear what a lousy engineer I was!
If you want to get pro results, they're not going to just come out of your wallet ... it takes time and patience to learn this stuff.
Go with Grover's advice ... start with something *small* so you can learn the basics and better understand the issues and limitations involved. Then you'll be able to make some really good decisions. You may even realize how *little* $100k can seem when you're really going for a "pro" set up. I'm not kidding. There's always a bigger and better box. :)
Good Luck!
 
THanks All

Lots of great ideas here
Ill be cautious and learn more before I jump in head first.
I think knowledge will be JUST as important as the equipment
after all
I cant drive a ferrari like al unser *s*
so, ill start with the basics and go from there.
Thanks to all that posted to my thread
I appreciate it alot.
 
For a small fee I'll stop by, purchase and set up an neato system!
 
but if you have some money to spend ............... PT is pretty cool :) especially with good converters, an external clock, a 733 Mac and not a PC, 25 grand worth of plug-ins, two Apple Cinama displays, 6 72 GB hot swap hard drives, a bunch of farm cards, a couple of sample cells, an edit pack, a Pro Control unit with a coupls of extension packs. Oh shit, I just spend you 100 grand. bummer!

If you are serious about spending some money on creating a good home studio, get the basics right first, create an acoustically sound control and tracking room, decide on your monitors, so you can build a space for them, and then start with a recording system you can learn on and expand.
Again, if you have some money to spend, you might as well buy a good system. Pro Tools is an industry standard, not the easiest to learn as you've already been told, but once you have it "in your head" its awsome.
If I was you, I'd start with something like this:
1 x Digidesign Pro Control unit (which includes Pro Tools software)
1 x Digidesign ADAT I/O
2 x Digidesign farm cards
1 x Waves Gold Buldle plug-ins
1 x 733 Mac
1 x Apple cinema display
1 x Lucid ADA824 8 channel converter
1 x Lucid GenX6 studio clock
2 x JBL LSR28P monitors
An Argosy console stand to put all the above in-and-on.
some good microphones and pre amps.
That would set you back about .... top of my head 24 grand without the mic's and pre's? But - its GOOD. If you use that in a sound acoustic recording and monitoring environment and can't produce anything sounding more than decent - look at yourself and learn.................
Apart from that, you'll have 64 channels real audio and many more virtual, can mix to an format, edit to your heart's content, and you can expand it with more processing capabilities whenever you want / need.
Another advantage - with a set-up like that, you could use your space to earn revenue - hire it out - if you'd want to (good thing to do- learn watching others use it)

If I was asked today to go make a record and choose between a large setup (like for instance Neve, 2 x Studer 2" {cost 600 k plus}) and the one described above, I would just add another Lucid converter, a couple extra farm cards, and 2 more fader packs to the Pro Control - and choose the above.
Why? I can make it sound better, can do more, have more features and editing capabilities, can do it faster, than the expensive analogue alternative.

If its your hobby and you have money to spend on it - spend it well.
 
sjoko2 - you'd really recommend starting off by spending THAT much money for someone who has never done this before?

I think starting off small with a little more then what he has is a decent way of getting started. He's only (initially) recording himself - what does he need 64 tracks for? Now, after he's played for a few months with the setup I suggested (or something similar), if he decides he wants to expand, then maybe he could move up to something like you suggest, but starting with that when he's never used anything doesn't make sense to me at all.

Maybe if he is considering going to ProTools he should try the light version rather then Ntrack, but....
 
:) Of cause, Grover, I expected that response.
Its a question of different people, different attitudes.

I've always been a believer in - if you want to do anything, gain the best knowledge, gain the best tools, build the right skills and go for it. If you fail - you've done your best. Doesn't matter if its your livelyhood or your hobby.
I'm building my own studio, I'm not a builder. I could have gone to Sears and bought a cheapass sawbench, just to see if I could do something with it - which would have frustrated me beyond belief, until I went and bought a good one, or got so frustrated that I gave up on the whole idea.
Another example? Say you want to go car racing, you've got the cash to buy a good car, but you buy a cheap banger, you do a couple of races, behind everything else, 'coz your car won't go fast. You'll sell it and get a better one, or get pissed of and leave racing alone.

If you've got money set aside, use it to get the best tools you can afford - but then , that's just my attitude, and who's to say I'm normal??
 
If I was going to drop serious cash on a recording set-up, I might buy the following;


Tascam MX2424 24 Track recorder

Mackie or Soundcraft mixing board

Event PS8 or Mackie HR824 powered monitors

T.C. Electronic M3000 or Lexicon PCM91 Reverb

Emperical Labs Distressor, Universal Audio 1176LN, or Aphex 661 compressor

APC surge protection (with battery back-up)

Sony CDRW33 CD Recorder

Microphones...depends on what you want to record. Ask some local studios what they are using and read all the magazines you can.

That's just an idea of a pretty serious home studio that would cost around $12,000, depending on how many mics and cables you buy. You can always go wild buying pianos, drums, acoustic guitars, synthesizers, etc. Have fun and keep it simple. Recording can get pretty complicated these days, with automated this and that, virtual instruments, software, etc. Most of the great engineers and producers learned on simple, basic equipment. You don't need ALL the toys, just good, effective ones.
 
Insane!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know, I know..............

Those of you who have read & argued with my post will say,"Smelly, you’re an audiophile, this guy is right up your ally."


He is insane. insane! INSANE!!!!!

Why even humor him.

He should take that 100000000000000000000000000
and invest it in a shrink!

He will learn more about recording that way then from
the posts I just read here.

SJOKO,
I love you man, I respect your knowledge, it really does amaze me, but I did not understand any of that tecno babble you just jotted down.

This guy will have even less of a clue then me.

The fucking guy doesn't even know what a DAT recorder is and yet he is willing to spend 10 or 20 grand on one.
That's like buying a Corvette & not knowing what to do with the steering wheel.

He is worried about his recording sounding too homey,
he should be more concerned with the shock therapy he needs.


love
Sean
 
I that case, he should save up more money, buy a 24track 2" Otari (the one that needs daily maintenance), to learn on, and a vintage Neve. Won't cost more than a good mercedes
 
you should go with the easiest solution

the best way i would go is the roland 24 track studio piece. right now for 3500us and the alesis/ tannoy bundle at mars for 300us then get a set of good mics about 10 sm57 a neuman u37, a good kick drum mic.
now we are at 6000us. buy about4000 more in exelent prosessing gear.

then construct 3 rooms one for drums. one for vocals and one to store the equipment . this can be done for 3000 us. ( ive built one and it wasnt that expensive)

get a hammer action piano (ive got the fatar sl990, 500us and has better action than any other ive played.) the korg trinity is another keyboard i recomend at 2500us

now that equipment and construction is out of the way
(at 16000 us ) you can go to the local college and hire music students to play sessions for you. (at 100 a pop they will be thankful for the oppertunity). the schools also have programs to teach you to run the equipment.

so enroll in the class and try to hire the best dude from the last class. (Im sure he needs the work).

so at about 30,000us you have not only built your studio but also staffed it with students that work cheap.

heres a good plan good luck.
 
Greetings,

If I may intrude and share some of my thoughts on the subject...

1. There is absolutely nothing with starting small. With strong knowledge of how your equipment works, there is nothing stopping you from making a decent recording on an old analog 4-track. I've done it. So have many others.

2. A small/reasonable setup might be something like those new all-in-one digital mixers/recorders, which are the hard drive version of the Tascam Portastudio. You get a lot of bang for the buck for under $2000 US and have reasonable flexibility to get started.

3. Buy smart. If money is a limiting factor, buy things piecemeal. Buy a good mic, buy a good recorder, and a simple basic mixer. Used equipment if tested properly can be had fairly cheap and you can make yourself a nice studio around a few pieces of key gear. I would estimate that 75% of the recording, midi and outboard gear I have was purchased off e-bay for significantly less than in a store. For example, why buy a $2200 digital synth that emulates several older analog synths, when you can buy the analog sounds you want for $100 each off e-bay or digibid.com? Nothing wrong with the older analog stuff, as long as you know what you are getting, and know the condition it is in.

4. Use patch bays. A $99.95 Neutrik patch bay and a 16 channel mixer is less expensive than a 32 channel board. When I ventured into digital recording I purchased an Akai DR8 hard disk recorder for $725, added an "ordinary" 18gig SCSI server-class hard drive, and purchased a $500 blow-out Tascam TMD-1000 mixer. Of course, I have four 72" high racks of midi gear, so I survived with patchbays. Then eventually I added another TMD-1000 at 500 bucks. Then another, and another. Then I sold most of them and upgraded to a pair of TMD-4000's, and STILL use two TMD-1000's for keyboard mixing.

There is no rule anywhere that you have to purchase 48 tracks of 48K digital recording on the first day. In fact, the more midi synths you use, the more you can layer your song and just overdub guitar, acoustic drums if you wish, and vocals. I've done entire arrangements in "stereo" with Midi, leaving 46 tracks for guitar leads, rhythm, vocals, and vocal layering. Technically, I could bounce things in such a way that I could survive with eight tracks.

Anyway, the point I'm making is you don't have to run to your favorite store and make the salesperson's year in commission - buy used, buy select pieces, and go for quality each time. I've heard some demos made on the old Tascam 244 (4 channel mixer, 4 channel tape recorder) that rivals some of the stuff you hear today. What makes a recording good is a combination of the material, performer's energy, and the method/technique that was used in the mixing/producing.
 
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