"Borrowed" Chord Progressions

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Kujo

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Hello all,

This is my first post here, but I've been reading through these forums for a little while now. I'm still quite new to the home-recording stuff. But everyone here seems really helpful and constructive, and I hope to begin posting some stuff of mine soon...(just as soon as I get down to things and start making some original music, that is ;))

Anyhow...question is:
What are everyone's general views on 'borrowing' chord progressions from other songs? I see in a lot of places, people saying "If your song sounds too much like another, then you should re-think it."

Contrary to that statement, there are plenty of songs I hear on the radio each day that 'sound' very similar (where chord progression is concerned). The major difference between any two songs being A) The performer, B) Tempo, and C) Lyrics.
I've even heard bands borrow from their own songs, to make a new one out of. Chances are, their producers are not telling them this is "wrong".

For example, I have heard a lot of songs using a progression of "Am F C G"
and all the songs sound beautiful. I hear these songs (Damien Rice's '9 Crimes' is an example) and while listening to them, I can start to hear something different in my head and begin to put bits and pieces of my own lyrics together.

I would really love to write a full song out of this, but I'm afraid listeners would criticize too much as sounding like other songs.
What does everyone here think?

Thanks :)
 
i think that if you make "radio music" it's nearly impossible not to borrow chords. at the end of the day the biggest masters of Pop and Rock borrowed from classical music themselves ;)
 
certain chord progressions sound like crap, some sound great, you can bet the ones that sound great will be repeated more often than the ones that sound like crap :D

to just make something sound different for the reason of sounding different when it sounds unmusical would be little silly especially if it sounds like crap.

innovation in music is okay if the result remains musical :cool:
 
There have been sooooo many songs written over the decades, that it is almost impossible not to repeat a chord progression done previously - in particular 3 or 4 chord progressions.

Given that music is a combination of harmony (chords), melody and rhythem, it is possible to use create a unique melody and/or rhythem around a "borrowed" harmony. As a writer, you have to say what you need to say (musically or lyrically) and not be overly concerned about if parts of your song may sound like somthing else (naturally, this can become more of a concern is your music is published, etc..............but that is a different discussion).

A well known technique to learn how to write songs is to take an existing chord progression and try to create a new melody over it - so what you want to do is actually something taught in many compositional classes.
 
Try to write a blues without "borrowing" the progression :)
 
I think two keys to having your stuff sound somewhat original are:

1. feel free to reuse elements of even well known chord progressions, but always strive to have an original melody line.

2. don't reuse an entire song's progression measure for measure -- instead do thinks like insert a measure here and to extend parts here of there, or go off in a new direction for the chorus or bridge.
 
Exercise...

In music school we were assigned to take a song and write a new piece using the chord progression. It's a standard practice.
 
Thank you everyone, for so many responses! :)

I really didn't believe that borrowing a progression could be viewed as 'wrong' musically. Fraserhutch, you nailed exactly what I was already thinking right on the head.

I don't plan on publishing any songs. As I already stated...I'm a songwriting newbie, so I highly doubt there'll be any record deals in my future.
In fact, my only goal right now is to make some music as a hobby. Publishing only to friends and family, and perhaps YouTube, Facebook, etc.

I do have some original riffs/melodies. But most of them don't really sound 'song-worthy'. Most of what I come up with (that I think is decent) is borrowed slightly from songs I've already heard. In fact, a large quantity of my inspiration comes from other artists whom I enjoy listening to, and respect.

Basically, when I read on other songwriting websites that 'borrowing' from other songs was frowned upon, I got a little dejected; and thought perhaps I was doing something wrong lol. Although, in hindsight, they could have meant 'copying' from other songs is a no-no.

Thank you everyone!
I've a feeling I'll be hanging out here for a while :)
 
Rhythm vs Melody

Chord progressions comprise the Rhythm. (most of the time)

Copyright infringement involves (mostly) stealing somebody else's Melody.


An identical chord progression example, but different melody would be:

The Romantics "What I Like About You" vs. John Cougar Melencamp "Rock'n In The USA"



One other note: A chord progress (if comprised as such) can take on a Melodic signature (feel). It stands on its own, and has no other competing melody. The Chord progressions, syncapation, can sound like a melody. Usually in instrumental music, or musical bridges. Good example is the opening measures of Focus "Hocus Pocus".

Here's a not so great MP3 rendition of that song. The original song is excellent, but this file will give you an idea of a rhythm that is a melody.




Cheers.
 
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Toddskins said:
Chord progressions comprise the Rhythm. (most of the time)

Copyright infringement involves (mostly) stealing somebody else's Melody.


Idential Chord progression example, but different melody:

The Romantics "What I Like About You" vs. John Cougar Melencamp "Rock'n In The USA"



One other note: A chord progress (if comprised as such) can take on a Melodic signature (feel). It stands on its own, and has no other competing melody. The Chord progressions, syncapation, can sound like a melody. Usually in instrumental music, or musical bridges. Good example is the opening measures of Focus "Hocus Pocus".

Cheers.
Click to expand...

Those are great examples!
Ok, here's what I've got.

Damien Rice's "9 Crimes" is in 4/4 with a tempo of 135bpm. He's playing a piano, all quarter notes which the main four bars are:
A E B C | F C F G | C G C E | G D G A
this repeats over and over for the course of the song.

I planned to have my version also in 4/4 time quarter notes, but 140bpm and played using two guitars, which the Rhythm Guitar is playing:
A E B C | F A F G | C G E D | B E C B
and the Lead Guitar playing:
A C B C | F E F G | C G C D| C C C B

Also, some orchestra strings following along in the background playing a: C A E D pattern.

I'm sorry if that all looks really confusing, but its the only way I can best explain it lol. I don't actually have any recordings yet. I don't even have the song written lyrically. I didn't want to invest too much time into it, if the song was going to turn out far too close to Rice's song to be called "original".

To me, it does sound hauntingly similar...yet, still different. I had also planned to write a bridge for this song, as I want it to get 'heavier'
near the end (as I am a huge fan of rock/metal)...whereas "9 Crimes" does not have a bridge.

So, is it a waste of time? Or should it sound different enough not to be confused?
 
You're referring to the harmonic rythm. There's also melodic rhythm.

But yes, musical copyright iinvolves but is not necessarily limited to melody. AFAIR, there were 7 elements to a musical copyright that needed to be considered. It would be interesting to dig them up.

Toddskins said:
Chord progressions comprise the Rhythm. (most of the time)

Copyright infringement involves (mostly) stealing somebody else's Melody.


Idential Chord progression example, but different melody:

The Romantics "What I Like About You" vs. John Cougar Melencamp "Rock'n In The USA"



One other note: A chord progress (if comprised as such) can take on a Melodic signature (feel). It stands on its own, and has no other competing melody. The Chord progressions, syncapation, can sound like a melody. Usually in instrumental music, or musical bridges. Good example is the opening measures of Focus "Hocus Pocus".

Here's a very poor MP3 version of that song. The original song is excellent, but this file will give you the idea.




Cheers.
Click to expand...
 
Self plagerism

King Crimson stole their own song. The first album included "Epitath" which was resurrected on their second album in the form of "In the Wake of Poseidon."
 
Motorhythm

A E B C | F C F G | C G C E | G D G A
this repeats over and over for the course of the song.


[/QUOTE]

Motorhythm
 
dogonjon said:
King Crimson stole their own song. The first album included "Epitath" which was resurrected on their second album in the form of "In the Wake of Poseidon."
Click to expand...

Metallica wrote Unforgiven I, II, and III
 
IMHO to go against the grain a bit here..

I think it is morally grey to hear a song and think.. hey I like that riff I'm gonna use it for a song.. But would say there is nothing wrong with sitting back jamming trying to get inspired and come up with a riff that later turns out to be another song.. Same result I realise but I dunno.. just sits a bit better with me..
 
I’m not sure it is “morally grey” but a riff is a melody of sorts and using may place you in breech of copyright. That is more the single string riff – a chord riff could be a little harder to prove – as I have never known the difference between a progression and a chord riff – other than it is usually rhythmically more dynamic.
Progressions are impossible not to copy – it is what you do with them – try them in half time, double time or reverse. Anything that get you writing songs.
Don’t get hung up on rules, because there are no ‘songwriting police’ who will arrest you – just don’t when writing the melody of your song exactly copy the ‘interval and time in excess of 8 notes’ or the real police will arrest you.
That’s the only rule I know – I think its 8? Any takers
 
A riff is not a chord progression. It may suggest one, but a good writer could take any riff and put it to a different chord progression.

aidan_m said:
IMHO to go against the grain a bit here..

I think it is morally grey to hear a song and think.. hey I like that riff I'm gonna use it for a song.. But would say there is nothing wrong with sitting back jamming trying to get inspired and come up with a riff that later turns out to be another song.. Same result I realise but I dunno.. just sits a bit better with me..
Click to expand...
 
plagerism

Stealing is wrong. It's done with intent. The Muses are free floating entities in search of the ones sensitive enough to comprehend their message. Many may tune into the same Muse and compose similar pieces simultaneously. This is not wrong. For example when Kurt Cobain wrote 'Come as You Are' I wrote a very similar song months earlier. Initially I was dismayed but I really liked how he treated it. Now I can appreciate where inspiration comes from.
 
dogonjon said:
The Muses are free floating entities in search of the ones sensitive enough to comprehend their message. Many may tune into the same Muse and compose similar pieces simultaneously.
Click to expand...

This is a great point.......however, I would suggest that if I hear a chord progression that inspires a melody or a riff that inspires a groove, etc. - perhaps that is indeed the muse simply reaching me in a more direct way!!!
 
Well....after scrutinizing my song over the past couple of days, I am quite certain now that my melody does not outright copy that of anyone else's (that I know of, of course)...at least not the one that inspired me to write it in the first place.

I realize stepping into a melody that may have already been written in a song (in part or as a whole) can be virtually impossible to avoid. There are just so many songs in this world, and just becuase someone famous hasn't written it...doesn't mean it hasn't been.

I see now what the point was on those other songwriting sites. If you're sitting down, jamming out a riff/lick/melody and you suddenly think it might sound like another song you've heard before....its best to take another listen to that song, to make sure you're not actually copying it somewhere.

I, personally, don't think its wrong for a person to be 'inspired' by a song, and then to turn around and write something totally new that's based loosly around the original.
Someone can't exactly come up to you and say "Hey! Your song sounds kinda like mine!"
At least, not in a negative way.
 
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