"boominess" when recording amp?

[ggunn]

Hmmmmm...well a PZM is a unidirectional...the cardiod will pick up much stronger what its pointing at than what is over to the side...even though it will pick up a little off axis.

No and no. A PZM is a boundary omnidirectional mic (see http://www.crownaudio.com/mic_web/pzm.htm), and a cardioid picks up almost as strongly 45 degrees off axis (see http://matbury.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/cardioid_pattern.gif) as straight on - it's only 5dB down even at 90 degrees off axis.

 

[lpdeluxe]

The tubby bottom may well come from the room you are recording in. Bass traps are the real answer, but I've had good luck by running the guitar track through a high pass filter set around 150-250 Hz (depending on the key the song is in) which will clean up the bottom without taking out resonance.

 

[mcmetal]

I don't think it sounds boomy at all and sits fairly well in the mix.

 

[darrin_h2000]

No and no. A PZM is a boundary omnidirectional mic (see http://www.crownaudio.com/mic_web/pzm.htm), and a cardioid picks up almost as strongly 45 degrees off axis (see http://matbury.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/cardioid_pattern.gif) as straight on - it's only 5dB down even at 90 degrees off axis.

Nope the PZM is unidirectional...it mounts on a flat surface for the most part...and wont pick up anything from that backside of the plate...now does it?

that will make the PZM the perfect unidirectional...an Omni picks up from all sides.

 

[ermghoti]

Nope the PZM is unidirectional...it mounts on a flat surface for the most part...and wont pick up anything from that backside of the plate...now does it?

that will make the PZM the perfect unidirectional...an Omni picks up from all sides.

Once again, proving it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool,than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

 

[ggunn]

Nope the PZM is unidirectional...it mounts on a flat surface for the most part...and wont pick up anything from that backside of the plate...now does it?

that will make the PZM the perfect unidirectional...an Omni picks up from all sides.

Did you even look at that link? A PZM is a boundary omnidirectional mic (it's right there in black and white from a company that makes them), meaning that it is omnidirectional within the boundaries of the plate. You are correct that it only picks up what's on the front side of the plate, but that's not what unidirectionality is. A PZM picks up equally in all directions within the hemisphere above the plate; calling a mic "unidirectional" means that it only picks up in one direction. Incidentally, there is no such thing as a perfectly unidirectional mic; even shotgun mics and parabolics have some spread in their patterns.

 

[chamelious]

Did you even look at that link? A PZM is a boundary omnidirectional mic (it's right there in black and white from a company that makes them), meaning that it is omnidirectional within the boundaries of the plate. You are correct that it only picks up what's on the front side of the plate, but that's not what unidirectionality is. A PZM picks up equally in all directions within the hemisphere above the plate; calling a mic "unidirectional" means that it only picks up in one direction. Incidentally, there is no such thing as a perfectly unidirectional mic; even shotgun mics and parabolics have some spread in their patterns.

No one cares except you two.

 

[ocnor]

 

[ggunn]

No one cares except you two.

So what? Maybe he learned something.

 

[DrewPeterson7]

Thanks for all the advice so far guys. I'm gonna post a sample of the sm58 pointing at the centre of the cone, 3 inches back.

Here it is in a mix im working on:

http://www.mediafire.com/?nngdiyjmmzv

Here it is dry:

http://www.mediafire.com/?g5imewzk0yo

Any passing thoughts on how the instrumental mix is sounding so far are welcome too.

Thanks again guys for all your help so far.

Actually, as it turns out, I CAN download from Mediafire from work.

Anyway, just listened. First, I agree with your assessment of the original tone, it is pretty boomy. The second, well, personally I don't care for it, but that's taste - it works for what you're doing, I think, and sounds perfectly acceptable. Solo'd it sounds a little scooped to me, and in the mix it sounds "dry" somehow, but by and large you're getting a sound that I don't think anyone would be embarrassed by.

How many tracks is that? Again, this is taste, but I think the tone you have now is pretty crisp and "crunchy" in the highs/high-mids. I'd kind of like to hear it complimented by something darker and smoother, mixed back behind the existing tracks a bit. Personal taste, of course, but...

And the slipperman article is fucking awesome. Pretend it's written by Hunter S. Thompson, if it helps.

 

[lpdeluxe]

No one cares except you two.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[darrin_h2000]

Did you even look at that link? A PZM is a boundary omnidirectional mic (it's right there in black and white from a company that makes them),

I happen to own 4 of them...and if it only picks up the front then it isnt OMNI...it only picks up half a sphere in one direction....the omni pics up a complete sphere equally from all directions.

 

[muttley600]

No one cares except you two.

stoopid bloody database error double posting.

 

[muttley600]

No one cares except you two.

I do.

ggunn is one of the few members here that actually checks data and sources before commenting. This is a case in point. Others will just post up any recollections of what they have read or erroneously remembered reading. Not good enough in my book. darrin_h..also has a history of vigorously defending what has been proven to be incorrect. I would take ggunn at his word. I would closely investigate any claim made by darrin_h.. and that is purely based on post history, content and a respectable level of scientific understanding.

 

[ggunn]

I happen to own 4 of them...and if it only picks up the front then it isnt OMNI...it only picks up half a sphere in one direction....the omni pics up a complete sphere equally from all directions.

Yes, I know. A PZM is a <deep breath> boundary omni mic, which means it's omni in (in this case) one hemisphere, the plate that it sits on being the boundary. It picks up the same 90 degrees off axis as it does on axis. This is a completely different animal from a unidirectional mic; unidirectional means, literally, one direction, not half of all the directions that there are. Don't take my word for it, look it up. Better yet, go post your thoughts over on the microphones forum; that should be entertaining.

 

[muttley600]

.............Don't take my word for it, look it up. Better yet, go post your thoughts over on the microphones forum; that should be entertaining.

Where do I pay.

 

[chamelious]

Actually, as it turns out, I CAN download from Mediafire from work.

Anyway, just listened. First, I agree with your assessment of the original tone, it is pretty boomy. The second, well, personally I don't care for it, but that's taste - it works for what you're doing, I think, and sounds perfectly acceptable. Solo'd it sounds a little scooped to me, and in the mix it sounds "dry" somehow, but by and large you're getting a sound that I don't think anyone would be embarrassed by.

How many tracks is that? Again, this is taste, but I think the tone you have now is pretty crisp and "crunchy" in the highs/high-mids. I'd kind of like to hear it complimented by something darker and smoother, mixed back behind the existing tracks a bit. Personal taste, of course, but...

And the slipperman article is fucking awesome. Pretend it's written by Hunter S. Thompson, if it helps.

Thanks Drew, i agree with everything you said. The only worrying part is the scooped comment, i hate scooped mids and my amps EQ actually has the mids slightly boosted.

In the past i've used an amp sim (v-amp pro) for recording with and its always sounded nice, but i much prefer the middy sound im getting out of the amp.

What i may do is use the cleaner more controllable low end of the v-amp sound, litterally just say 50-250hz, then high pass my amp sound and use that for the mids and top.

 

[DrewPeterson7]

Thanks Drew, i agree with everything you said. The only worrying part is the scooped comment, i hate scooped mids and my amps EQ actually has the mids slightly boosted.

In the past i've used an amp sim (v-amp pro) for recording with and its always sounded nice, but i much prefer the middy sound im getting out of the amp.

What i may do is use the cleaner more controllable low end of the v-amp sound, litterally just say 50-250hz, then high pass my amp sound and use that for the mids and top.

Well, let me also say it only seems to sound scooped solo'd - when you pull up the rest of the mix, it definitely sounds more balanced.

I can't speak for the v-amp, but I used to own a J-Station and never had much success blending tones with it and my "real" amp (variously, a Mesa Rocket-44, a Marshall TSL100, and a Mesa Nomad). The J-Station sounded fine alone, but as soon as a "real' amp came in it sounded woofy, grainy, indistinct, and just kind of blah. Give it a try, see if it works, and if so, run with it, but I'd experiment with a 3rd and 4th track from your 3120 as well. I'd try maybe a different mic placement - perhaps 2" back, and a little closer to the edge of the cone? Worry less about what it sounds like solod and more what it sounds like fleshing out your existing tracks a couple db behind them in the mix.

 

[tewfus]

Well, let me also say it only seems to sound scooped solo'd - when you pull up the rest of the mix, it definitely sounds more balanced.

You bring up a good point here. It's easy for people (especially guitar players) to worry too much about how the guitar sounds solo'd and let that shape their opinion of how it sounds in the mix. This actually applies to almost anything you might record. Have an instrument sound great solo'd is nice, but having an instrument sound great, while sounding distinct and not stepping on the other instruments is the goal.