Bob Katz's K-System

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The not fountain head
Here's the run down on the K-System... I HIGHLY recommend reading it, no matter who you are in the recording world!

http://www.digido.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=9

Now.. I have a pretty simple question.. And It's most likely paired to an obvious answer. I guess I just want a little help re-assuring myself...

Tracking/Mixing/Mastering
The K-System will probably not be needed for multitracking--a simple peak meter is probably sufficient. For highest sound quality, use K-20 while mixing and save K-14 for the calibrated mastering suite. If mixing to analog tape, work at K-20, and realize that the peak levels off tape will not exceed about +14. K-20 doesn't prevent the mix engineer from using compressors during mixing, but the author hopes that engineers will return towards using compression as an esthetic device rather than a "loudness-maker."

Using K-20 during mix encourages a clean-sounding mix that's advantageous to the mastering engineer. At that point, the producer and mastering engineer should discuss whether the program should be converted to K-14, or remainat K-20. The K-System can become the lingua franca of interchange within the industry, avoiding the current problem where different mix engineers work on parts of an album to different standards of loudness and compression.

Full scale peaks and SNR
It is a common myth that audible signal-to-noise ratio will deteriorate if a recording does not reach full scale digital.On the contrary, the actual loudness of the program determines the program's perceived signal-to-noise ratio. The position of the listener's monitor level control determines the perceived loudness of the system noise. If two similar music programs reach 0 on the K-system's average meter, even if one peaks to full scale and the other does not, both programs will have similar perceived SNR. Especially with 20-24 bit converters, the mix does not have to reach full scale (peak). Use the averaging meter and your ears as you normally would, and with K-20, even if the peaks don't hit the top, the mixdown is still considered normal and ready for mastering, with no audible loss of SNR.

Presuppose, for a moment, that I am a mastering engineer and that I'm mastering a pop project mixed @ K-20, which I want to master to K-14....

Where would I want the highest dbFS peak be, on the CD release? If I had 1 peak, in the entire song, @ -0 dbFS, is my job complete, or do I need to find a way to get it lower?

If I'm understanding this all correctly, my task would be FAR from complete..

Using the Meter's Red Zone.
This 88-90 dB+ region is used in films for explosions and special effects. In music recording, naturally-recorded (uncompressed) large symphonic ensembles and big bands reach +3 to +4 dB on the average scale on the loudest (fortissimo) passages. Rock and electric pop music take advantage of this "loud zone", since climaxes, loud choruses and occasional peak moments sound incorrect if they only reach 0dB (forte) on any K-system meter. Composers have equated fortissimo to 88-90+ dB since the time of Beethoven. Use this range occasionally, otherwise it is musically incorrect (and ear-damaging). If engineers find themselves using the red zone all the time, then either the monitor gain is not properly calibrated, the music is extremely unusual (e.g. "heavy metal"), or the engineer needs more monitor gain to correlate with his or her personal sensitivities. Otherwise the recording will end up overcompressed, with squashed transients, and its loudness quotient out of line with K-System guidelines.

On the CD releases we see nowadays, peaks are normally @ 0 dbFS...

Wouldn't my greatest peak, during a entire mastering career of only mastering to K-14 (not K-12), be 90 dbC SPL (+/- a couple)... and therefore -9 dbFS (+/- a couple)? Any higher and people's ears would surely be damaged by that one peak?

Thanks!
 
remember that this is just for monitoring.

so say your monitor controller is set to k-20. and you have a mix that is at a good volume. your monitors should be calibrated to the volume where you do most of your work at. sometimes, when you set your monitors too low, you find yourself raising individual tracks until you raised all of them up to your favorite level. then you just ran out of headroom. so what you do is just keep your monitors calibrated at that favorite level and mix.

then, when you go to "master" the project, you drop the monitor level 6 db to k-14. when you increase the level of the track by 6db, it will be back at your favorite level, and you will be able to compare accurately.

when mixing peaks can be virtually anywhere. Katz is recommending a -20 FS RMS with peaks no higher than 0db FS (but they can be lower). when you bring it up to K-14, you are going for about a -14 db RMS with peaks no higher than 0db FS. I hope I got all this right....

There is also a K-12 to really "cook" the mix. Personally I can't seem to get past -16 without ruining the mix. I think this is why Katz also advocates a 1db stepped controller.
 
Hmmm...

So, if I'm Bob and I'm doing a mastering job using K-14, my monitors are set for 79 (turned down 6 db's). When a 0 dbFS peak comes along, my ears hear something like 93 db SPL?

Hey, thanks!! :)
 
peritus said:
Hmmm...

So, if I'm Bob and I'm doing a mastering job using K-14, my monitors are set for 79 (turned down 6 db's). When a 0 dbFS peak comes along, my ears hear something like 93 db SPL?

Hey, thanks!! :)


remember though, peak meters don't show the true representation of the way the human ear hears. RMS levels measure that more accurately. And Bob (and many others) recommends using pink noise to calibrate your speakers. For example, I use K-20...running pink noise at -20dBSPL through my system for 79dBSPL for each speaker (83dBSPL total). And this is RMS levels. If I wanted to have a K-14 system, I'd adjust the pink noise to -14dBSPL. So 83dBSPL is 0VU for me and this is where I like to put my mixes at. Peaks register at around -10dBFS (with pink noise)...give or take depending on the program material.
(I do audio for video, so my numbers may be different than what someone doing music would do)

So when I'm doing my mixes, I watch RMS levels and keep them around -20...and this equates to about -83dBSPL (two channels). Peaks may be a lot higher than that, but my ears don't respond to them, so that's okay.

But when I import a music track that was mixed at a different studio, the levels are way off (of course). For example, I'm working on this one that has an orchestral piece with peaks around 0dBFS and RMS levels around -10/-8. This is of course 10dB louder than what my room is calibrated to run at...so it's friggin' loud! So I have to adapt it to what I'm doing, and turn it down about -10/-11dB (or more to actually fit with the piece). Then I can listen to it without blowing my ears


So in short, I think it's good to calibrate your speakers accordingly (I think Glen and I have had discussions on this...he doesn't agree :) ).
Find a loudness (SPL) level you like to work at and calibrate that with pink noise to any K-metering system. -20, -14, -12, whatever. Then make that magic number your zero line where you should mix your RMS levels at (average program...sometimes you may want to make it quieter. actually I think Mr. Katz talks about that number being set for the loudest part of your mix).
 
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bennychico11 said:
remember though, peak meters don't show the true representation of the way the human ear hears. RMS levels measures that more accurately. And Bob (and many others) recommends using pink noise to calibrate your speakers. For example, I use K-20...running pink noise at -20dBSPL through my system for 79dBSPL for each speaker (83dBSPL total). And this is RMS levels. If I wanted to have a K-14 system, I'd adjust the pink noise to -14dBSPL. So 83dBSPL is 0VU for me and this is where I like to put my mixes at. Peaks register at around -10dBFS (with pink noise)...give or take depending on the program material.
(I do audio for video, so my numbers may be different than what someone doing music would do)

So when I'm doing my mixes, I watch RMS levels and keep them around -20...and this equates to about -83dBSPL (two channels). Peaks may be a lot higher than that, but my ears don't respond to them, so that's okay.

But when I import a music track that was mixed at a different studio, the levels are way off (of course). For example, I'm working on this one that has an orchestral piece with peaks around 0dBFS and RMS levels around -10/-8. This is of course 10dB louder than what my room is calibrated to run at...so it's friggin' loud! So I have to adapt it to what I'm doing, and turn it down about -10/-11dB (or more to actually fit with the piece). Then I can listen to it without blowing my ears


So in short, I think it's good to calibrate your speakers accordingly (I think Glen and I have had discussions on this...he doesn't agree :) ).
Find a loudness (SPL) level you like to work at and calibrate that with pink noise to any K-metering system. -20, -14, -12, whatever. Then make that magic number your zero line where you should mix your RMS levels at (average program...sometimes you may want to make it quieter. actually I think Mr. Katz talks about that number being set for the loudest part of your mix).


Makes good sense to me...

Any Pro Tools tips for adhering to this?

Signal Tools has the Peak + RMS
 
I like to keep it simple and flexible: If I am doing the final master, I try to make it as loud as the duplication medium (CD) will handle while still sounding good (genre-specific). If louder is requested, I make it a little louder and a little crappier until a happy median is found. As I go louder and I have to adjust my monitoring along the way, so be it. When I'm just mixing, I don't really care what kind of peak and average levels I have as long as it is under 0dbFS and it sounds appropriate.
I think everyone is too far in the game to suddenly have some kind of standardization thrust on them, such as what the movie industry already has.

IMHO, and all that.
 
peritus said:
Makes good sense to me...

Any Pro Tools tips for adhering to this?

Signal Tools has the Peak + RMS


Yeah, I have presets for K-20, K-14 and K-12. Put that on your master fader (which I can't do unfortunately) as the second to last plugin (last one being dither probably). In the levels meter move the arrow on the left to -20, -14, and -12. And set the meter to Peak+RMS. Then make presets for each one. The blue levels will measure your RMS while peak will be in yellow/green. The arrow just denotes your zero line. Then I'll put the LEQ(A) option on and set it to a 2 second window.
So for that orchestral piece I was telling you about above, if I wanted to work with that piece as is (without adjusting it's levels), I'd put the meter to K-12 and the RMS levels bounce around the zero line.

Then I'd put a signal generator with pink noise at -12dBFS RMS. You'll see the RMS levels right around that zero line, and the peak levels up closer to 0dBFS. Then I'll use the SPL meter to measure each channel to 79dBSPL

Like Mr. Katz uses, I have a main monitor control on a mixer that Pro Tools feeds into. That way I can mark in pencil EXACTLY where K-20 reads 83dBSPL total, K-14 reads 83dBSPL total and K-12 reads 83dBSPL total. So I don't have to recalibrate each time...I just move the monitor control knob to the right setting for the piece I'm working on.


Hope all this makes sense. It can be confusing at first, but soon you'll find it's easy to understand.
 
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bennychico11 said:
So in short, I think it's good to calibrate your speakers accordingly (I think Glen and I have had discussions on this...he doesn't agree :) ).
I personally find this subject to have only the faintest tangential relation to reality, and consider it all a whole lot of hubabub about nothing.

But others who's opinions I otherwise respect (like Benny and others) find some meaning or use for it. If it works for them, who am I to get in their way?

So I'm just going to stay out of this thread and let you kooky kids have your fun :).

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
I personally find this subject to have only the faintest tangential relation to reality, and consider it all a whole lot of hubabub about nothing.

But others who's opinions I otherwise respect (like Benny and others) find some meaning or use for it. If it works for them, who am I to get in their way?

So I'm just going to stay out of this thread and let you kooky kids have your fun :).

G.


lol
For me personally not only is it important to keep a standardization throughout our house (gain stage wise...as it should for everyone)...but I find that having calibrated speakers helps you mix loud and soft levels more evenly, if that makes sense. After awhile I got used to just listening to something and placing it in the mix where it should sit. That way I don't pay attention to my meters as much because I can just hear that "-20dBFS RMS sounds this loud." It helps keep my mixes of all my projects similar.
Again, I do totally different work than a lot of people here, and having my entire mix at -20dBFS RMS is important. And it's also important that if I'm working on several sections of a video project that maybe consisted of 5 different videos, they all sound the same volume. I guess you could consider it sort of a "self mastering". While a lot of people in the music world take their mixes to a mastering engineer to level out each track to sound coherent, I have to do it on my own and keeping 0VU=83dBSPL helps it STAY even.
If I kept changing my monitor levels on top of that so that every day I walked into the studio they were different...I'd probably find myself paying MORE attention to my meters and less attention to what I was mixing.

Again, all my opinion ;)
 
bennychico11 said:
That way I don't pay attention to my meters as much because I can just hear that "-20dBFS RMS sounds this loud."
I don't understand why it's important to know the RMS at all, to be honest with you. Either the mix is going to sound right or it's not going to sound right. The actual numbers are close to irrelevant for anything other than curiosity, IMHO. Needing to know the RMS number implies that one is shooting for a predetermined target number and they're trying to find out how close they are. Whether that's done by ear, pencil mark or meter is irrelevant; in audio only production it shouldn't be done at all, IMHO. One should mix to the best that the tracking gives them and let the numbers fall where they may. Trying to force-fit a mix to a predetermined number only leads to trouble.

Are you going to tell me that a Bob Dylan ballad is going to sound best at the same RMS that a Kiss anthem will, or that FTM, you'll be able to guess the proper RMS before hearing the performed arrangement and deciding upn the mix arrangement? Are you going to say that it is not best to work with the tracking you have and build the mix from there, completly ignorant of any numbers other than to make sure you're not clipping? And re you going to tell me that songs of two different densities and two different RMSs will automatically be perceived of as being the wrong volumes relative to each other when placed side-by-side in a track list?

If different types of songs with different arrangements, different quality of tracking, and different densities naturally mix out the best at different RMSs (which they do), and if different density songs with different RMSs will still come out at appropriate litseneing volumes relative to each other when plased side-by -side in the playlist (which they will), then why should I or anybody else give a rat's patootie what -20RMS or -15RMS or any other arbitrary number actually sounds like in the monitoring room?

And as far as "standardization throughout the house", I have to give you credit for being a much better man than I for being able to hire engineers who's ears all work not only the same as each other's, but the same as Bob Katz's, and who all work the best and most efficiently at the same monitoring levels all the time. If we had more people like that, maybe we could finally end all the arguments about which monitors/microphones/EQs/preamps/etc. sound better or flatter or whatever than others; we could eliminate the need for translation in the studio altogether because we'd only need one perfect make and model of studio monitor for everybody; we could get rid of the ambiguity between Fletcher-Munson averages and ISO estimates for average human hearing response, because everybody's hearing would actually BE identical; ear fatigue would be meaningless; and most importantly I wouldn't have to worry about that wax buildup in my ears or the barometric pressure or humidity changes in the studio because none of those will have an effect on the monitor performance or my ear performance from one day to the next.

What a perfect utopian world that would be!

But I live in a far from perfect world where regardless of whatever pencil marks I made yesterday or last year, there's a whole laundry list of variables down the chain that will change the monitoring situation not only from day to day, but from hour to hour. I also live in a wonderfully non-utopian world where when mixing there are some mix details that are sometimes best listened for at a lower SPLs and other details that are best listened for at higher SPLs. And this world that I live in also shows that those details are different from person to person...hell, sometimes even different from left ear to right ear.

But the day that I need a number to tell me whether the level of my mix is good or not is - for my methods, anyway - the day I should retire; either because my ears are no longer not up to the task of audio engineering, or becuase all music and mixes are identical and therefore no longer worth mixing.

Sorry, Ben. So much for staying out of the thread :o . But the thread, like a good mix, just kinda led that way. ;)

If it works for you, great. I have yet to find a use for it myself.

G.
 
peritus said:
http://www.dangerousdecibels.org/teachers_guide/DDB_TRG_Intro.pdf

"Noise-Induced Hearing Loss (NIHL) - this is hearing loss due to exposure
to either a sudden, loud noise or exposure to loud noises for a period of
time. A dangerous sound is anything that is 85 dB SPL (sound pressure
level) or higher."
That's sort of true. There's a lot they're not telling you.

Here's a couple of tables from the Industrial Health & Safety Regulations from the WCB of BC. The first one deals with steady state noise measured in dBA. The first number represents decibels, the second number represents maximum daily exposure time without hearing protection.

eg. 87-16 means they'll let you listen to 87 dBA for 16 hours a day without hearing protection.

87-16
90-8
93-4
96-2
99-1
102-1/2
105-1/4
over 105-0


The second one here is impact noise. The first number is peak dB SPL, the second number is maximum number of impacts per 24 hour period.

118-14400
121-7200
124-3600
127-1800
130-900
133-450
136-225
139-112
140-90
over 140-0


----------------------------

So yeah, I guess it all starts around 85 dB SPL, or the customary optimum mixing level (RMS) in order to compensate for the Fletcher-Munson curves.


sl
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
I don't understand why it's important to know the RMS at all, to be honest with you.

<big snip>

If it works for you, great. I have yet to find a use for it myself.

G.
The paper by Mr. Katz suggests that it's a nuisance for consumers to constantly adjust the volume level of their stereo everytime their CD changer reads a different disc. There are no standards. A CD could have an RMS level of -18 dB, or -3 (square wave).

Industry standards would keep the mooks out of the control room and give people some headroom for dynamics.

It looks like a good idea to me.



sl
 
No, I appreciate and respect your comments, Glen. And I hope this discussion helps others form their own opinions as well.

I do have to start off reminding you that I DO work with audio for video, which is a whole different beast altogether. There has been, for quite some time, a fight for standardization in the video industry with regards to audio. Much more so than anyone (Bob Katz being one) have done for the music world. A perfect example is the creation of George Lucas' THX. The whole point of his creation of these standards was so the producer's mix will sound exactly the same way the mixing engineer intended when played back in a THX auditorium. Then of course there are Dolby standards. Similarly, in the local markets there are broadcast standards. Much like the radio stations that have to smash everything with a 40:1 limiter in order to air a song, TV broadcast stations follow guidelines as well and in many cases will send back a mix to the engineer if they do not follow those guidelines.

THIS is why I feel it's important to watch the meters. I have to deal with it day to day and although maybe at once I thought it was constraining, I ended up liking it. The only downside is, much like music, there isn't a single, across the board standard for all these separate places to send my mix. But it's closer to one. Many of them I do not deal with (we aren't that big of a company with top named clients all the time...so we don't do mixes for Discovery Channel or the like ;) )....and because I don't deal with them we keep a generic, in house, standard for not only broadcast usage, but for corporate usage as well (drug/medical companies, Colgate, AMC, Sprint, etc). This way anytime we send them a mastered production, my levels are going to be similar. The last time I sent them an interview with music and foleyed sound effects...is going to sound the same (volume wise) through their TVs, conference room speakers, or large event speakers as my new mix is. However, I DO NOT mix each track to it's own specific RMS value. When I talk about watching the meters, this is only for stereo program purposes. I let each track fit where it should lie according to my ears.
And when I was talking about my in house standard earlier, I meant calibration tones for all our gear. I'm the only audio engineer at our company (the rest are video) and it was set a long time ago before I got there that -20dBFS = 0VU on the analog equipment. Which is actually what most video broadcast stations follow. But following RMS levels also helps me determine what it's going to look like on analog Beta SP tape that we're going to make the final duplication tapes on.

You talked about comparing a Bob Dylan ballad to a Kiss anthem. Or maybe should we compare to a Foo Fighter's album. We KNOW (and complain) very much how the overall loudness in music has changed over the years. How mastering engineer compress the hell out of albums and ruined the dynamic range. WHY has there been such a change over the years? If there was a standardization set would this have happened? Would bands still be sending their albums to mastering engineers so that not only does their CD sound louder than the next band, but all their tracks sound coherent EQ and volume wise? Aren't some mastering engineers doing just that right now...putting all the tracks on an album to set average volume levels so that people don't have to constantly change the volume on their CD players?
If a standardization had been set for music, would we have people complaining that they have to turn up their old albums that were originally recorded in the 60's? Maybe dynamics of an album today would have the same dynamics they did 30 years ago. A soft section in a ballad would be just as soft as we heard it then, and a loud section in a rock piece would be just as loud. And maybe I wouldn't be the only one advocating that we not complain about having to turn "vintage" mixes up in order to get them to sound "normal" in our car....but rather complain about having to turn down contemporary CDs and radio broadcasts.
And of course you brought up the Fletcher-Munson curve which many believe there is an average amount of people that hear all frequencies pretty evenly at one SPL level. Hence why the difference between 1kHz and 20kHz sounds closer and closer the more you turn up your speakers. Of course, we need to keep that within reasonable limits.


Glen, I really would not be surprised if you took an average SPL reading of your room during several mixing sessions and found them all to be fairly the same level. I think it's habit forming. The human ear just likes to find that comfortable listening level (hence the reason people want the evening out of volume levels of CD masters...the difference is the mix engineer wants to keep the dynamics at the same time).
But I agree that you shouldn't constrain yourself to one SPL for the entire time. Sure, listen to how the mix holds together at lower and higher volumes for those extreme cases...but I like to keep one reference level that I can return to. So I can jump from project to project and not have to adjust my monitor volume each time I do so.

I think me and you continue to butt heads about this every 5 or 6 months it seems. And although I am no expert by any means at this stuff, there are many respected engineers out there (Katz included) who DO believe in a set standard.
Funny enough, my background is music and you'd think I'd share your view on trying to keep the art of it all...which maybe in my mind I am. But I guess at the same time we are audio engineers, and there is science as well as an art behind what we do.

-B
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
Sorry, Ben. So much for staying out of the thread :o . But the thread, like a good mix, just kinda led that way. ;)

If it works for you, great. I have yet to find a use for it myself.

G.

Lots of folks get criticized for recommending or panning gear they haven't actually used, so I'm inclined to ask: have you actually studied the details, understood what the system is trying to accomplish and then actually worked this way for a while before deciding it's rubbish? :)

One key purpose of a calibrated monitoring system is to develop a consistent way to assess and manage the loudness of tracks... to bring some degree of order out of the chaos. By using calibrated and controlled monitoring gain, you develop an intuitive sense of how loud things should be for the mix overall and for elements within the mix.

Different tracks will have different intended loudness, and by turning the gain down a certain amount, you inevitably mix or master with increased loudness to compensate for the gain reduction (typically with more compression), since you have that intuitive sense of how loud things should be. In contrast, turning up the gain forces you to reduce the loudness of the track, leaving more dynamic range. The ability to do this, in a fairly predictable and quantitative way, is one of the big benefits to using a calibrated monitoring system.

As you said, if it works for me, great. It does. :)

Cheers,

Otto
 
ofajen said:
Lots of folks get criticized for recommending or panning gear they haven't actually used, so I'm inclined to ask: have you actually studied the details, understood what the system is trying to accomplish and then actually worked this way for a while before deciding it's rubbish? :)
Yes, I've dived into Katz's stuff a number of times. It's a great cure for insomnia ;) :D (J/K...mostly.) I admire Katz's intellect and knowledge of engineering, and I have great respect for him, but with no diminishment of that respect intended, I frankly find a lot (not all) of his paperwork to be intellectual and numerical tours de force that often wind up losing track of the reality behind the numbers.

It all really comes down to one thing for me: the MUSIC needs to dictate the mix, not some arbitrary set of numbers. "Music" there is a somewhat umbrella term that covers a few different variables that include things such as song style, song emotion, composition and arrangement, quality (as a property, not as a judgement) of performance and quality of tracking. As a mix engineer, those are all starting values that have to be plugged into any equation or determination beofre any conclusive final numbers can be determined as far as the "proper" final RMS for the song.

MEs do have as part of their tasking the task to bring continuity to the perceived loudness of an ablum of otherwise individual tracks. But what's the best way to do that? Does one analyze (with their ears or meters or whatever) the content and find the lowest common denominator to work with so that none of the mixes all apart yet all the racks sound good, even if some could potentially be boosted more, or does one choose an arbitrary, content-unrelated number and use a shoehorn to try and get all the mixes to that point? I'll take the former hands down, thank you very much.

And there is also a HUGE difference between RMS and perceived volume. Let's not even compare Dylan with the Foos, let's compare a sparse picked blues ballad versus a dense shred guitar showdown by the same artist on the same album; in fact let's make them consecutive tracks. You make that ballad the same RMS as the showdown, it will sound much louder to the end listener. They *have* to have diifferent RMSs in order to "make up" for their different sonic densities.

Asking for inter-CD continuity in volume is to ignore the content altogether and to demand comprimise in the quality of the sound in order to rigor a standard in the quantity of it. Do you really want your Telarc disc of the New York Philharmonic performing Vivaldi's "Seasons" to be mixed and mastered to the same final RMS as Clash's "London Calling"? I think not. You'd either have to take a lot of the edge and energy out of the Clash or you'd have to squash the shit out of the orchestra.

And that's all assuming that the mix engineer and the mastering engineer have the best theoretical tracking to work with. You start moving out of Sony Studios and into the project studio, and you start moving away from A-list musicians and towards the garage band, and you have tracks that can easily start falling apart before a given loudmess "standard" is met.

And as far as monitoring standards in the studio: Ben, depending upon your definition of "average", I'd be ready to take you up on your bet pretty fast. My right hand is on my CR Volume pot on my mixer virtually as often as it's on the mouse or on my fader bank. That's my style of mixing; I listen to the mix at different volumes for different tasks and different phases of mixing. I get up and walk around the room during playback. I switch monitors between my 824s and my Klipschs at different volumes to listen for different properties of the mix. And I never, ever even have a reason to look at RMS levels until the mix is done and it's ready for mastering.

And that's just within a single session. That's not counting the fact that when I go in to continue a project on a rainy Saturday morning with a couple of band mambers in tow that I'll probably have the leves measurably different than I did when I worked it the sunny and dry Friday before when I was in the room myself and starting the mix beofre heading out to abuse my ears with 4 hours of live gig that night between sessions.

Finally, the main reason that loudnless levels are all over the place on commercial CDs and that we have the idiotic RMS Wars these days is because - just like in any other profession - 80% of the engineers and producers in this racket are just not very good; they are in the wrong line of work. Imposing a standard upon them in a place where such a standard is not appropriate isn't going to make them better engineers and is not going to make the overall quality of output intrinsically any better.

If the K-standard works for you guys and helps you do a better job, I won't get in your way. But just please don't ask me to conform to it because it just don't work for me. And it's just not me; there are plenty of A-List engineers and producers out there that talk about the exact same things I do here, it's them that I've gotten my technique from.

G.
 
If all of your monitoring is done at 90db then your mixes are going to be muy bass shy at 70db.

It's a matter of learnig your hearing response and how it translates at different levels. Stare at those fletchure- munson doohickys ( turn them upside down!) and find a way to deal with the built in eq changes that occur ( in our hearing mechanism ) at different levels. Some people like to get absolutley locked in at the same ,calibrated level and are able to translate a good balance for the rest of the levels. some like to bounce around and check out the different levels. Either way your translating what hits your ears to achieve a balance that works well ( a Compromise really) at most levels. Then then throw in all the genre specific variations!!!!! ( easy , right!! :( )

Then have the spectral balance checked by an ME , Then, maybe it's good for the majority of the ears out there! :p


:D
P.S.
If you randomly check a dozen or so of your friends and familys car stereos or boom boxes, you will see that everybody has the eq all tweaked out instead of flat!! So all of your work gets modified anyway!!! just please your ears and do the best you can!!
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
It all really comes down to one thing for me: the MUSIC needs to dictate the mix, not some arbitrary set of numbers. "Music" there is a somewhat umbrella term that covers a few different variables that include things such as song style, song emotion, composition and arrangement, quality (as a property, not as a judgement) of performance and quality of tracking.



G.


Whats that preset named???? Can you program that for me please glen!! :p



Epic blast! :p :p
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
- just like in any other profession - 80% of the engineers and producers in this racket are just not very good; they are in the wrong line of work.
G.


Oh man, why did'nt I get a secound opinion!!! Seriously people, 50% of the doctors and lawyers out ther graduated in the bottom half of the class!!!!!


What's even more upsetting is that allot of the "prominent" folks in a proffession got to the top by having a B.S. in bs!!!! :eek:


:D :p
 
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