Bob Dylan - best songwriter ever?

[heatmiser]

I’d say for me personally, he’s the best songwriter ever – I’ve got more albums and songs written by him than anyone else in my cd collection and the combination of great lyrics and melodies is a winner for me. I’m not particularly bothered about technically good singing – I’d rather listen to Tom Waits shouting into a bucket than Mariah Carey over-emoting her way up a scale in some pishy saccharine ballad.

Well said. I'm with you on the bucket thing, even though I don't necessarily know Tom Waits' stuff too well at all.

LOL @ over-emoting her way...

 

[Surfs Down]

I’d rather listen to Tom Waits shouting into a bucket than Mariah Carey over-emoting her way up a scale in some pishy saccharine ballad.
.

That's just because Waits is a better singer (and I don't mean that ironically). Carey warbles, not sings. Waits shouts/moans/grimaces and a hundred other things, not all of them pleasant but at least it shows variety.

On topic - I guess Dylan must rate as one of the best. There are far too many great songs to ever exclude him (although I really don't like Blowin in the Wind...), and his influence is huge. The point is, this kind of discussion is often dominated by the sort of names that we (as musicians, or at least wannabe musicians) expect each other to mention. So yes, I agree with many listed here, Lennon/Mac, Ray Davies, Brian Wilson - but as some have pointed out, each of them excelled in slightly different areas. I guess in the end its a highly personal definition: what matters is often the aspect of music each of us consider the most important - be it melody, lyrics, production etc.

 

[brother rat]

Cool, keep this discussion going.
I'm a huge Dylan fan. But really, he was just the right guy at the right time. If Dylan had never been born, we'd have this same thread about someone else. Could anyone have been "Dylan"? Nope. Have there been other "Dylans" that got absolutely no recognition? Of course. How many of them? Thousands? Probably not. Hundreds? Maybe. Is it annoying to ask and answer my own questions? I'm sure it is.
Most iconic figures come down to being a rare individual who was the right person at the right time. Had they been born or put out their first record or made their first speech or created their first painting either 10 years later or 10 years earlier, we would be discussing someone else instead.

 

[AnthonyCeseri]

I think this has a lot to do with people listening to Bob Dylan singing his songs and going, "That's awful, I could do a better version of XXXX" and proving it. Royalties are nice though.

Most covered and best are two different things in my mind...

I guess this is a fair point. As long as the lyrics are there (which in his case, they are), you can change up the instrumentation however you want, and create a cool new piece out of it...

 

[grimtraveller]

I think this has a lot to do with people listening to Bob Dylan singing his songs and going, "That's awful, I could do a better version of XXXX" and proving it. Royalties are nice though.

Most covered and best are two different things in my mind...

I guess this is a fair point. As long as the lyrics are there (which in his case, they are), you can change up the instrumentation however you want, and create a cool new piece out of it...

Hmmmmm........
I've not yet come across any Dylan coverers that didn't like Dylan, voice and all. Other artists thought he was just fantastic and that his songs really 'spoke' volumes and touched people, which is primarilly why people covered them.
As an aside, Dylan's kind of singing opened up the way for unusual singers that didn't sound 'pretty'. Many garage and punk singers owe a debt to him there.

 

[Folkie]

I would put Dylan up near the top, but as many have said, it depends on the criteria. I'd throw Woody Guthrie in there as well. Indeed, Dylan supposedly modeled himself after Woody in his early years, and stole some of the tunes Woody stole from somebody else, and put different lyrics to them. Tom Paxton is another songwriter that would have to go up there near the top, as least as far as quality of the lyrics and number of songs he's written. Then there's people like Cole Porter...

 

[RushPfeiffer]

I think Bob is a fantastic song writer but he doesn't have the best voice. I hear tons of songs of his where he sings obviously off key at times. Whenever I hear that I'm very surprised that a professional of his caliber isn't a better singer.

 

[AL P]

Dylan had some good lyrics. I don't think you can identify any artists as the best. Definitely a master. But lyrically I think there are many great songwriters in the same league as Dylan - Simon and Garfunkel, Lennon and McCartney, Tom Waits

Paul simon ain`t no slacker..
first person I thought about when reading the tittle to this thread..
And speaking of covers..i really like peter paul and mary`s version of blow`in in the wind..
I can`t seam to stop staring at mary..LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t4g_1VoGw4

while I`m at it...and sorry for getting a bit off track here..
but here`s one more..say what ya want about women in the band, but I`d put mary back in the day, in my line up in a heart beat..LOL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUKB3PxG-0E&feature=fvwrel

 

[grimtraveller]

I hear tons of songs of his where he sings obviously off key at times. Whenever I hear that I'm very surprised that a professional of his caliber isn't a better singer.

You know, I've never heard a Dylan song where he goes off key. Live maybe.

 

[Beat Poet]

I'd say he is the most timeless songwriter ever, his classics just haven't lost their relevance.

 

[stonepiano]

yes. Bob is the best.

 

[Richard Monroe]

Bobby is a great lyricist, and just enough of as songwriter to make his poetry fit the musical structure without clashing. If you look at a lot of bob Dylan's tunes written out, it's hard to see how you would set them to music. That is the mark of a poet- writing lyrics. It never comes across as doggerel. Example- "It's alright, Ma (I'm only crying)". Some of my favorites- "The Hour That the Ship Comes in", "The Ballad of Hollis Brown", "Only a Pawn in the Game". Bobby was a huge influence on me, not musically, but lyrically. He is one of the great songwriter-story tellers of all time.

I appreciate it, because like him, I'm not a great musician. Songs are just a vehicle for telling stories. If your music is great, but your story sucks, I probably won't listen to your music. That's just a matter of taste, not to put down instrumental music. Regardless of the musical genre, that's what folk music is, from "I Been Workin' on the Railroad" to "Ain't Goin' Down ('Til the Sun Comes Up) to "Snoopy vs. the Red Baron", to "PInball Wizard", to "Norwegian Wood".

There are more than a few engineers and recording artists, including several on this board, who think the human voice is just one more instrument, and mix it that way, as if the words don't matter. Well, the story was around for a thousand years before they were born, and will likely be around for a thousand more when they are gone. The ballad is just one format for telling the story. From "The Odyssey" to "Beowulf" to "American Pie" the only thing that changes is how we tell the story. We live in a world of sound bytes, and can't stay in the elevator long enough to hear the story, so all we get is Muzak. Although I'm not a big fan of the rap/beat music format, at least it tells a story to somebody that can understand it and relate to it, which makes it better than another round of "Ooh, Ooh, Ooh, Baby, Baby, Baby".

I prefer the Reggae Music format personally, and it is often topical, but if I hear "Jammin" one more time, I'll probably scream. Having spent a considerable amount of time in Jamaica, it's not possible to escape. Ziggy is no Bob (Marley or Dylan). Bob Dylan has told us a lot of stories, from the corny to the confusing, from the uplifting to the emotionally painful. He has brought forth a million laughs and a million tears, joy, rage, and depression. So he was flat. BFD.-Richie

 

[grimtraveller]

There are more than a few engineers and recording artists, including several on this board, who think the human voice is just one more instrument, and mix it that way, as if the words don't matter.

I do look at the voice as "just" another instrument, but let me qualify that by saying that apart from certain members of musical groups {such as percussion, in which there are so many varieties of say, shakers, that it gets to a point where there's little difference between one shaker and another}, most instruments to me are unique and do different things and are pretty much irreplacable for what they are and do in particular songs.
While a voice can make beautiful sounds, wordless sounds, with or without melody, that will far more often be the exception rather than the rule. The vocal stands unique because it both carries the melody, has an expression of it's own and issues forth words. And it's rather pointless having it if it's going to be drowned out by everything else in the song. That is not to say that one has to understand the words {lots of people love various songs in British and American rock and pop but don't speak English}, but if they're there, things are generally going to be built around their presence. At other times, the voice plays more of an instrument role ~ it's damn versatile that way.
The words matter, if not on a "getting into the meaning" sense, then sonically and arrangement wise. I speak neither Gaelic nor Portuguese but the songs from Brazil and Ireland that I like carry a feeling and more with them, even though I haven't a clue what's being said.
One thing I do find interesting is that anyone I've ever heard say that lyrics don't matter, if they write songs, their lyrics make coherent sense. If they really didn't matter, then it wouldn't matter if they made sense or not.

 

[timtimtim]

Bob is autistic, and so was sufficiently detached from other peoples opinions to be able to pursue his own ideas without hindrance, and so become an icon, idolised by many for his uniqueness and apparent "prophet" status, but really, as he himself said, he is just a "song and dance man", and no more.

 

[happinesstudios]

I would actually say hes the most overrated songwriter.

 

[Strat1958]

Did Art Garfunkle wriet with Paul?

No, Art was not a songwriter, he just provided 'the voice'. Interestingly, in the context of this thread, Jimmy Webb wrote many songs for Garfunkel. Check out the album "Watermark"...very, very good.

 

[grimtraveller]

his efforts from his 1965 albums liberated a whole slew of lyricists and indirectly, pretty much every lyricist since.
Dylan once said to Keith Richards "I could've written 'Satisfaction' but you couldn't have written "Mr tambourine man".

Dylan changed what could be considered a Pop song.

Dylan didn't like that people thought they had him understood

his influence is huge.

Other artists thought he was just fantastic and that his songs really 'spoke' volumes and touched people,

As an aside, I find it interesting, the number of songs that in one way or another mention Dylan. There must be loads. Off the top of my head I can think of "God" {John Lennon}, "Yer Blues" {the Beatles}, "The seeker" {the Who} "Song for a small circle of friends" & "Zimmy finds his father" {Larry Norman}, "Song for Bob Dylan" {David Bowie}, "Campaign for real rock'n'roll" {Edwin Collins}, "Telegram Sam" {T Rex}, "When the walls came tumbling down" {Def Leppard}......he even mentions himself in "Gotta serve somebody".

 

[Steenamaroo]

Ha, I'm actually producing a track at the minute with a Bob Dylan reference in it.

He says "She makes me listen close to everything she's saying and I, I make her listen close to Bobby Dylan"

Hmmmm, no one cares.....

 

[ido1957]

He was (and is still) quite an influence no doubt....

 

[happinesstudios]

I actually think hes the most overrated. Not my cup of tea to be honest. I also agree with the person who said that most covered and best are two wayyyyyyy different things. But everyone has their own tastes.