Blumlein - Do you have to have figure 8's?
- Thread starter errr314
- Start date
drossfile
nope
This is from EQ Magazine:
"A Blumlein Pair requires two closely matched figure-8 mics to insure balanced stereo recordings. While the patent calls for a pair of bi-directional ribbon mics like the two RCA 74b Junior Velocity mics shown in Figure 1, two identical, multi-pattern condensers with each set for figure-8 polar patterns are often used instead. While preferred, you don’t have to have a factory matched mic pair; you can use any two mics of the same type and model, as long as each has (or can be set to) a bi-directional polar pattern. If you already own one multipattern condenser mic, or one bi-directional ribbon, consider purchasing a second mic of the same model so you can exploit the Blumlein Pair technique."
but i also read in sound on sound that the only reason alan blumlein used fig8 and omni mics for his various stereo pair experiments was because those were the only mics available at the time.
from what i can gather, he developed pretty much all the stereo setups: xy, mid-side, etc, but if you want to call your setup a "Blumlein Pair" it does indeed need to be 2 fig8 mics. the mutual angle and placement of the 2 mics in this configuration were developed based on the response of 2 fig8 mics.
so, it's not like you couldn't try it with whatever mics you have, but if you're using cardioids, it would probably make more sense to just go with xy, spaced pair, or whatever. hell, you could place a couple cardioids in a mid-side position if you wanted to, but it would then cease to be "mid-side" and would be silly to call it that.
"A Blumlein Pair requires two closely matched figure-8 mics to insure balanced stereo recordings. While the patent calls for a pair of bi-directional ribbon mics like the two RCA 74b Junior Velocity mics shown in Figure 1, two identical, multi-pattern condensers with each set for figure-8 polar patterns are often used instead. While preferred, you don’t have to have a factory matched mic pair; you can use any two mics of the same type and model, as long as each has (or can be set to) a bi-directional polar pattern. If you already own one multipattern condenser mic, or one bi-directional ribbon, consider purchasing a second mic of the same model so you can exploit the Blumlein Pair technique."
but i also read in sound on sound that the only reason alan blumlein used fig8 and omni mics for his various stereo pair experiments was because those were the only mics available at the time.
from what i can gather, he developed pretty much all the stereo setups: xy, mid-side, etc, but if you want to call your setup a "Blumlein Pair" it does indeed need to be 2 fig8 mics. the mutual angle and placement of the 2 mics in this configuration were developed based on the response of 2 fig8 mics.
so, it's not like you couldn't try it with whatever mics you have, but if you're using cardioids, it would probably make more sense to just go with xy, spaced pair, or whatever. hell, you could place a couple cardioids in a mid-side position if you wanted to, but it would then cease to be "mid-side" and would be silly to call it that.
dementedchord
Psychotic State alumni ch
for the opposite sides to mix right it's important... so yeah...
Ok thanks for the info. I was considering getting figure 8's to do that style but from what I have read you need a good room for that as well. My room is not that good for recording drums.
I will just stick with the Recorderman method for now. I may actually try that with my LDC's just for fun to see what it sounds like though.
Thanks!
I will just stick with the Recorderman method for now. I may actually try that with my LDC's just for fun to see what it sounds like though.
Thanks!
dementedchord
Psychotic State alumni ch
yeah that's true i thought of telling him that but it's wayy too much work to set up right since the correlating diaphrams would have to be time alligned to work even close to right...
Caotico
for all the right reasons
from what I have read you need a good room for that as well. My room is not that good for recording drums.
yeah, that's kind of the point of the blumlein setup; you pick up sound information from 360 degrees.
thebigcheese
"Hi, I'm in Delaware."
Yeah, I was just going to say that without figure 8s, you're really just doing XY. We were just playing with this setup in class, actually...
thebigcheese
"Hi, I'm in Delaware."
EDIT: Ugh, sorry, double post.
Remember that the back side response of each figure 8 is equally strong but reversed in phase, so if you're recording in a small space, make sure you tame the reflected sound or the rear lobes will cause problems.
Cheers,
Otto
Not only that, but the image will be reversed for the rear lobes. This is one of the reasons this mic technique has interesting spatial characteristics.
But a fig 8 is almost deaf on the sides, four LDC's will never work as good as two fig 8's, I wouldn't even try.
A figure of 8 pickup pattern is frequently created (in multipattern mics) by having a back to back cardioid arrangement where the output of one is subtracted from the other. Whilst I don't think the 4 cardioids will be "perfect" I do think it'd be worth trying.
IN THEORY it'd work perfectly (if you could get the 2 corresponding capsules in the same place in space).
rickshawrecords
New member
If anyone's interested, there are 3 photos and 2 audio samples of my DIY Austin Ribbon Mic Blumlein pair at:
www.rickshawrecords.com/ribbonmic/stereo
Comments are welcome!
- Rickshaw
www.rickshawrecords.com/ribbonmic/stereo
Comments are welcome!
- Rickshaw
dementedchord
Psychotic State alumni ch
rickshawrecords
New member
Yep. The only difference is that there are 2 AUSTIN elements in this particular chassis, set in a Blumlein configuration.
- Rickshaw
dementedchord
Psychotic State alumni ch
cool... good work man... i been thinking about trying a pair myself...