BLUE vs. JZ

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Mo-Kay said:
ok, so I see what you mean..but WHAT are all these "great things" that "America" has done for the American people, that a lot of Americans seem to bring up all the time?
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America has educated me, kept me in a job, protected my human rights, etc., etc. Same as the Netherlands have done for you, I presume. America isn't perfect, but it's sustained me and my family. For that I'm grateful and willing to give back.

You don't think that people can make it without the society they're born into, do you?
 
Blue Visitor said:
As stated above, Blue has moved the manufacturing operations for most of its core product line to the United States – specifically Southern California, where we are headquartered – and whatever is not made here is made in Latvia. None of our microphones are made in China. We do, however, source some of our non-critical parts, such as shock-mounts and cables, from Chinese manufacturers. This enables us to cost-effectively increase the value of our product line by including free shock-mounts with each of our mics.
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I just might give your product a try, based on the US move.

Regards.
 
and I think that's a good thing. A man (and a woman too, for that matter) has to keep his shit together, right...and it's good if your country helps you.

What just bugs me is people getting all patriotic and are on some freedom-founding-fathers-greatest-country-in-the-world shit (and I won't even begin the all-too-easy "stolen land" story), when racism, poverty, a bad social security system, a right wing system with a **** for president and last but not least WAR wherever something can be GAINED is a big part of what makes America, America.


Maybe my scoop is just too big, but American patriotism to me seems so hypocritical a lot of the time.


Like I said, I don't hate America...and a lot of the stuff I love is actually American, hell I even considered moving to America for a few years...I just hate this kinda stuff.


Nothing personal.
 
Mo-Kay said:
when racism, poverty, a bad social security system, a right wing system with a **** for president and last but not least WAR wherever something can be GAINED is a big part of what makes America, America.
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Well, I think this is a pretty slanted view. Sure there's racism in the US, but there's no mainstream "Nationalist" parties in the US, like there are in Europe. I don't think you guys are in much of a position to criticize us in that regard. As far as poverty goes, we have problems here, but we do have fairly low unemployment compared to many parts of Europe. And why do you think our social security system is bad?

As far as the war thing goes, I couldn't agree with you more.

I understand you not liking it when Americans say they live in the best country in the world. I have never said that mainly because I believe it's kind of arrogant. However, I think your views about America are not very balanced.

Mo-Kay said:
Maybe my scoop is just too big, but American patriotism to me seems so hypocritical a lot of the time.
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Sometimes I think people's love for their mother is hypocritical. It doesn't mean it's invalid or ingenuine. Why would you not love the country that has sustained you and protected you, whatever its flaws? I think that patriotism goes too far, however, when it's used to put other countries down, and that happens far too often in America.
 
19,000 Americans were killed in Belgium in December of 1944.


America certainly was there for "gain" then.

A pity that gratitude was not among the items gained
 
I understand what you are trying to say...but over here in north-western Europe we have certainly not forgotten about the help we got from the Allies...even though Holland's bond is more with Canada.


I can understand why people love America...you got every right to.

It's big, gas is cheap, the houses are bigger, you got a lot of different sceneries...you can travel freely and everybody speaks the same language.

And I CERTAINLY DON'T think all Americans are the same.

To me it just seems that some American's are all about the whole cliche/patriotism trip... and it's just VERY ANNOYING...especially coupled with the lack of knowledge a lot of these people have.


Since you already mentioned education:
for instance... high school education standards are lower compared to those over here...
but what bugs me MOST of all: Americans that don't know SHIT except for America.

Don't know about Europe (over here we even have a commercial for a pizza called "Big American"..... "Daddy, where's Deutschland? It's that little country next to the Netherlands!", don't know about Asia, don't know about ANYTHING.


Over here...surely, you don't learn everything either... but what do you learn in an "American" history class? You learn about AMERICA! it's "American History Class"


How come I know that Chicago is nicknamed the Windy City, Ford started in Detroit... Washington DC and Washington are not the same places...


and the average American will most likely tell you "Amsterdam is all about hookers and weed", doesn't know who Anne Frank is, thinks German and Dutch is the same thing, and thinks Dutch wear wooden clogs for shoes?

And the government that claims to represent the people that live in their country, claims to be the "greatest country", polices the world, ignores the UN if they choose to, and do whatever the fuck they like.

I don't like self-centered people. Not individually, not collectively, not at all.



and that, all in all, is what I hate about American "patriotism".
 
indeed, hate isn't pretty...but I'm sure even you know what I mean...if you're not like that, don't be offended..if you are, that's just your lost.
 
Mo-Kay said:
and the average American will most likely tell you "Amsterdam is all about hookers and weed", doesn't know who Anne Frank is, thinks German and Dutch is the same thing, and thinks Dutch wear wooden clogs for shoes?
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I personally don't know very many Americans like this.

You've got to update your stereotypes. You're getting pretty irrational when you say that Americans don't know anything. We're worldwide leaders in science, history, almost any field you care to name.

As far as education goes, we've got the Netherlands beat in terms of sending kids to secondary school and colleges. First column is "primary only," second column is "secondary also," and third column is "college also."

United States 16% 53 24
Netherlands 42 37 21

42 percent of your country doesn't advance to secondary school, and we have more people going to college, though the Netherlands is only behind the US in terms of sending people to college, so good job!!
 
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well, maybe you don't....but I'll be damned if you can't fill a couple of cities with Americans like that.

Did you know there has been an American newspaper publication condemning the Dutch drugs policies and prostitution laws, among other things, basically stating that The Nederlands is Sodom and Gomorra?


Imagine yourself living in a free country (yes, we have that over here, too), having these laws and policies, having a MINIMUM of drugs- and prostitution related problems in your country...

And then some journalist from a country that has loose (to say the least) gun laws, high murder rates, a poor social security system and a new Southern rich, white president every 4 years that for the most part does nothing to help the people at the bottom... is telling his people that your country is a pool of sin?



I know it's just an example... but just imagine that, and maybe then you'll understand the flipside of things.
 
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Mo-Kay said:
Did you know there has been an American newspaper publication condemning the Dutch drugs policies and prostitution laws, among other things, basically stating that The Nederlands is Sodom and Gomorra?
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Well, from that newpaper's perspective, that's the case. What does that have to do with anything?

Mo-Kay said:
Imagine yourself living in a free country (yes, we have that over here, too), having these laws and policies, having a MINIMUM of drugs- and prostitution related problems in your country...

And then some journalist from a country that has loose (to say the least) gun laws, high murder rates, a poor social security system and a new Southern rich, white president every year that for the most part does nothing to help the people at the bottom... is telling his people that your country is a pool of sin?
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All this says is that you agree with your country's policies and disagree with ours. I disagree with many of ours as well, but I still don't see why it's out of bounds for Americans to criticize the Dutch. You guys do the same right back at us.
 
Mo-Kay said:
well, maybe you don't....but I'll be damned if you can't fill a couple of cities with Americans like that.
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You could fill a couple of cities of Dutch people that believe completely crazy things about America as well. There's ignorant people everywhere.
 
but I still don't see why it's out of bounds for Americans to criticize the Dutch.
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how about just simple statistics of economical, social and criminal problems? You know that's it not that crazy over here.

btw I just realised that the thing I was so ticked off about wasn't an article but a CNN feature.. ( I knew I forgot about something!)

A reporter suggested that in a hospital in Groningen (a city in Holland) unborn children were killed, but the real that was happening there, was that children that we're going to be born severely disabled (wich in this case means they would not be able to lead a life, they would just be able to breathe...and that would be it.)...Conclusion: The Dutch kill innocent unborn children.

Over here, we do it like this...over there, people are being kept on life support for years.
Over here...it's about doctors and patients. Over there...5 year fights between lawyers decide wether or not a patient that slipped into a coma after a carcrash should be kept breathing or not.

So yeah... I guess it is a difference in the way of handling things...









But like you said...there are ignorent people everywhere. So let's take that in account, but at the same time let's not think our country is the greatest in the world ok...'cause nothing is perfect.
 
Mo-Kay said:
how about just simple statistics of economical, social and criminal problems? You know that's it not that crazy over here.
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It's ridiculous to say that it's OK for the Dutch to criticize the US but not vice versa just because you don't have as much crime or poverty.
 
I'm just saying it's bullshit to tell someone down the street they're not doing things right in their household because his kitchen is dirty, when your son's on coke, your daughter's a slut, your wife cheats, your house is a mess and you shoot people.
 
But bottomline, I don't think we really disagree al that much... it's just that there might be some people on either side we dislike, I guess.
 
Mo-Kay said:
I'm just saying it's bullshit to tell someone down the street they're not doing things right in their household because his kitchen is dirty, when your son's on coke, your daughter's a slut, your wife cheats, your house is a mess and you shoot people.
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Of course, but I would really disagree that this is a fair assesment. You're making the Netherlands out to be a near-paradise and the US to be a hell-hole. Each country has it's pros and cons. There may be low crime in the Netherlands, but the crime rate in the US is still pretty low. You may have lower child poverty in the Netherlands, but you have really low taxes in the US. You may have a better primary school system, but we may have a better college system and more people going to college. etc. etc.

Anyway, this has gone too far for the mic forum.
 
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