Blue Robbie Preamp....my thoughts
- Thread starter goldencd
- Start date
chessrock said:Well, then I would definitely give Tony or Dylan a call or email and see what either of them would recommend. If they're mixing your stuff, it's their input that is going to matter the most. Not a bunch of home recording hacks over here.
That is a good point. But you "hacks" also have opinions and have used the equipment. Dylan will tell me to get a $3000 mic and a $3000 pre and upgrade to a TDM system.
I cant do that, so I was hoping i would get some advice from this place as well.
goldencd said:
You're probably not going to get the kind of tracks Dylan wants, either way. I'm assuming this cat is a professional, and you're basically sending him stuff that was tracked by an amateur in a project studio. It's like sending a homemade bologna sandwich to a gourmet chef.
If that's your only option right now, then just send him the best amateur-produced tracks you can, and see what he can do with them.
chessrock said:
Yeah you may be right, but it is just vox to p-tools. Not to 2" or gospel choir with an 80 piece string section...just up in the mic rapping.
also...
If you are unfamiliar with Dylan or Tony Maserati's work, you should pick up the last BEP album or Missy Elliot or Jay-Z or Alicia Keys so and and so on I will post the advice I get from Them.
Thanks
id have to disagree to some extent with people who are saying that a pre doesnt really add "warmth" or color a mics tone as we are lead to beleive. differant pres add a huge amount of freq range to the same mic. your tlm will sound totally differant going through a 1272, and avalon, a mackie, or anything. if these preamps all sounded the same and made no real differance you wouldnt see people trying to snatch up neve sidecars and 610 racks.
so really it comes down to knowing your mic selection and your pre selection and being to use that knowladge together to get the tones you want to tape.
ive never used that robbie thing but id say try it with all your mics before ditching it outright. might sound great on other stuff. if you really hate it send it back and try a UA 610 instead. i find those to add a little more depth to LDCs that are more "airy" plus the 610 has an eq you can play with as oppose to a wierd looking pre with one knob.
just the shape of the robbie has kindof kept me away from it. how the hell you rack it?
so really it comes down to knowing your mic selection and your pre selection and being to use that knowladge together to get the tones you want to tape.
ive never used that robbie thing but id say try it with all your mics before ditching it outright. might sound great on other stuff. if you really hate it send it back and try a UA 610 instead. i find those to add a little more depth to LDCs that are more "airy" plus the 610 has an eq you can play with as oppose to a wierd looking pre with one knob.
just the shape of the robbie has kindof kept me away from it. how the hell you rack it?
i am with you on that.
and not to be on my own nuts.
but my vox sound better on a KSM32 then most cats on U87. If you know what your doing and have mic/breath control then we can get passed the don't screw up the vocals thing.
Lets pretend for a second that I am not a novice at my job, which is rhyming and recording... I am looking for advice about that one step up..that one thing that might make vox sound a little better. When I record in studios I don't ask what they are running ish through. I notice the mic and the big screens with protools on them.
But now I am building my own studio, (slowly) and am seeking info.
Chanel Strip. Pre. Tube. ? I dont know. I do know that I didn't care for the robbie that much.
Not trying to be a jerk..just clarifing my aim.
Peace
and not to be on my own nuts.
but my vox sound better on a KSM32 then most cats on U87. If you know what your doing and have mic/breath control then we can get passed the don't screw up the vocals thing.
Lets pretend for a second that I am not a novice at my job, which is rhyming and recording... I am looking for advice about that one step up..that one thing that might make vox sound a little better. When I record in studios I don't ask what they are running ish through. I notice the mic and the big screens with protools on them.
But now I am building my own studio, (slowly) and am seeking info.
Chanel Strip. Pre. Tube. ? I dont know. I do know that I didn't care for the robbie that much.
Not trying to be a jerk..just clarifing my aim.
Peace
Middleman
Professional Amateur
Get thee to a gear rental shop....
Alicia records on a variety of Neve preamps. $2000 and up. So does JLo.
Words do not a good sound guarantee. You need to rent some high end gear, mics and preamps, then decide for yourself.
For an education go here to see some top end gear. http://www.mercenary.com/
Alicia records on a variety of Neve preamps. $2000 and up. So does JLo.
Words do not a good sound guarantee. You need to rent some high end gear, mics and preamps, then decide for yourself.
For an education go here to see some top end gear. http://www.mercenary.com/
goldencd said:
Well, ya see ... that's very important. Matching the microphone to the voice has very little to do with how expensive or nice the mic is. The ksm-32 is a very capable mic. I've always been a big fan of them, because on certain voices, they just work. And if that's what does the best job of translating your voice, then that's what you should go with.
That's not really what I meant, but it is a big part of it, obviously. What I'm saying is that, as an engineer, there are things I know to look out for when tracking vocals that I wouldn't necessarily be cognizant of if I were tracking myself.
Things like mic positioning; does the mic sound better positioned just under your lip and pointing slightly down so as to pick up more chest resonance? Or does it sound better pointed slightly upwards so as to pick up more of the "face?" And as silly as it sounds, your voice can and will sound drastically different depending on where it's pointed. You have the advantage of having them professionally tracked in the past, so you might just go by memory as to how it was positioned then.
Then there are things like off-axis stuff; is the singer locked in to the mic, or does his head wander once in a while? I know when the singer moves his head or (gasp!) looks at his lyric sheet, and I'll just stop the tracking right there and make him/her punch in if I see any of that crap.
All it takes is once.Also, when doing doubles, I can instantly hear when one of the doubles is off and isn't meshing with the first track ... and again I'll stop him/her when I hear this happening. Having someone else there besides you to hear and take note of this stuff is extemely valuable, and will greatly contribute the quality of your finished product.
These may seem like little things, but in my opinion, they are what makes "the difference."
You're not a novice at rhyming ... I don't doubt that. But it's okay to admit that you're a novice at recording.
There is no "one step." What they're doing at these studios is likely threefold: 1) They're doing the "menial" and less glamorous tasks of de-essing and de-popping. and 2) They're adding that last bit of polish through EQ, and maybe a touch of reverb. 3) They're most likely doing a generous amount of compression so as to make the track more powerful, articulate and up-front. With rap vocals in particular, this is probably the second most important step after tracking technique. You want color? You ain't ready for the kind of color you get from good compression, and you can't handle it once you get it. Your monitors probably ain't good enough to translate it, and your ears ain't experienced enough to refine it.
Keep in mind that this isn't stuff for you to even worry about anyway. If you're sending your tracks off to be mixed by someone else ... let them worry about the de-essing, de-popping, compression, EQ, etc. That's their job, and unless you're willing to give up rapping and study audio engineering full-time, you will not be able to do as good of a job as they can. If it's true that they've worked with JayZ and all those other guys ... then their tools will school yours, and so will their skills.
Now all this stuff I just got done talking about? Won't even hold a candle to the importance of your tracking room design. This thread will give you an idea of what the single most critical thing is that separates your home brew tracks from those at the professional studios in which you've tracked. Mike Morgan pretty much nails it with this quote: "Once you realize how daunting of a task this is, and how little you really understand about the subject, you might just want to go ahead and pay the big-buck studios to record your little demo."
I get a kick out of that. When it comes to accoustics ... you probably don't know half of what you think you know.
And what you do know probably isn't enough.Good luck Gold.
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Advice from Dylan Dresdow...
Too much to soak in... But it boiled down to this. Avalon 737 is standard for hiphopers but the pre on that model is decent at best. The opto compressor is too slow for some people. The only thing that shine is the EQ. NEAVE (sp?) is great, but becomes sloppy in the frequencey 300 range when layering vox. which you dont want in rap.
For price conscious cats like myself he recomended the Empirical Labs Distressor for COMPRESSION. He said that it provides a ton of tonal options depending on how you tweak it, from clean and punchy to gritty and driven and emulates an 1176 very well.
As far as Pre's which is what this post was about...way back when. He said that Great River was the way to go. (don't forget that he is keeping in my my budget). He recommended this because for around $1000 you could get one the dopest mic pre's out there...mono channel, half rack, which is all i really need for vocals.
He recomended Buzz audio but said it was a little more pricey as well as some flamingo shit that I can't remember which is mos def out of my price range.
I really trust his opinions because he isn't a gear pimp trying to sell his shit. If anyone has a $2000 budget and is thinking about channel strip, pre, compressor...what should I get. I would suggest giving this stuff a look.
I am gonna test some of this stuff out and get back with my opinions.
also... he was not a fan of tube pre's for rap. something about driving the pre and mudding up the vox.
peace
Too much to soak in... But it boiled down to this. Avalon 737 is standard for hiphopers but the pre on that model is decent at best. The opto compressor is too slow for some people. The only thing that shine is the EQ. NEAVE (sp?) is great, but becomes sloppy in the frequencey 300 range when layering vox. which you dont want in rap.
For price conscious cats like myself he recomended the Empirical Labs Distressor for COMPRESSION. He said that it provides a ton of tonal options depending on how you tweak it, from clean and punchy to gritty and driven and emulates an 1176 very well.
As far as Pre's which is what this post was about...way back when. He said that Great River was the way to go. (don't forget that he is keeping in my my budget). He recommended this because for around $1000 you could get one the dopest mic pre's out there...mono channel, half rack, which is all i really need for vocals.
He recomended Buzz audio but said it was a little more pricey as well as some flamingo shit that I can't remember which is mos def out of my price range.
I really trust his opinions because he isn't a gear pimp trying to sell his shit. If anyone has a $2000 budget and is thinking about channel strip, pre, compressor...what should I get. I would suggest giving this stuff a look.
I am gonna test some of this stuff out and get back with my opinions.
also... he was not a fan of tube pre's for rap. something about driving the pre and mudding up the vox.
peace
hmm just wrote this somewhere else. mabye here. with 2k to spend on a pre and a mic id get a single 610 and a u87 or blue cactus. if i didnt need the mic id spend the 2k on a 610 and either a urei era 1176 ( with the ratio buttons) or a british mod distressor. all of those things are studio workhorses youll find all but mabye the cactus in most upper end studios. im not really sure if the 610 would provide the uncolored transparant sound for todays radio hip hop but im sure theres amazing amazing hip hop recorded with far worse stuff than your 103 and a robbie. mario c used some crap ass stuff to provide some of those amazing vox on check your head. wonder what dre was using on hundred miles and running? those vox sound great. nice and warm, not like alot of radio freindly thin, over squashed crap now. really it goes back to what sound your trying to get and what works well with your mouth.