Blue Bear, I need help Please

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Flash

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Hey, I know youv'e helped me in the past, I really need help now. I had the music to a bunch of songs, and I ask this friend to come over to put down some words. Now he wants to copywrite the stuff. I quess without me......What can I do, if anything?
 
Actually, I'm just in the process of reading Moses Avalon's book "Confessions of a Record Producer" - I think Moses is Steve Albini, but anyways!

He mentions copyright in there and mentioned something I wasn't aware of... current copyright laws don't let you copyright an arrangment - only a melody, and lyrics.... and of course, the lyrics can be copyrighted separately from the melody!

I don't if that helps you though....... I suggest checking the US governemnt website for copyright protection -- they should have more details there about what you can do.....

Good luck!
 
Blue Bear Sound said:
He mentions copyright in there and mentioned something I wasn't aware of... current copyright laws don't let you copyright an arrangment - only a melody, and lyrics.... and of course, the lyrics can be copyrighted separately from the melody!
Click to expand...

wow I am really surprised you were not aware of that... actually it surprises me just how many people are not aware of it... but I thought you would certainly be one who would know... hmmm... guess we all were surprised here :D

anyways, did he write the words or did you?? are they just spoken words or are they lyrics that are sung?? if they are lyrics that are sung, did he come up with the melody to the lyrics or did you??

if he wrote the lyrics then by law they are his and not much you can do about that... he can do what he will with his own work. if you wrote them, then they're yours...

but don't forget about the sound recording... it has a copyright too and since you did all (or most all) of the recording and funded the recording, you own the rights to the sound recording. (I am guessing you didn't go into a studio, so since you are doing it at home I am guessing and since the equipment belongs to you I am guessing, it is fair to say that you funded the recording. If you went into a studio, whoever paid for the session would have funded the recording and therefore have the rights to the sound recording).

now this puts you both into an interesting position if you are wanting to make copies and sell them. Since he owns the words (if he wrote them that is), legally you cannot make any copies for sale without paying him royalties. And legally he cannot make any copies for sale either since you own the sound recordings. In s situation like this, I would say that a simple solution you would agree to let each other make copies and split the profits... or you could pay each other royalties and end up hating each other in the end more than likely.
 
Copywrite the music as instrumentals..If you had all the music down first , I would bet that his melodic ideas are derived to some extent from the music...Or is the music devoid of melody..As for the SR dosen't that only cover the version that sells..Is arrangment covered under SR{I always hated this stuff}...Well anyways copywrite the music as a instumental ..cover your own ass


Don
 
Henri Devill
Force of Nature

Registered: Jun 2001
Location: Casselberry Fl....Where the hell is the bathroom!!
Posts: 666

The name and # of posts(scary)
 
and of course, he says ... where the HELL is the bathroom :D


Chad
 
Thats what I want to do. CYA I mean. That's what I'm saying though, All the music was recorded before He came into do any lyrics. He heard my stuff and said that he could sing some words to them. The songs sound real well and now he wants to copywrite. He never could have come up with them words without my music. Every body that has heard them has said " I can hear words going thugh my head ". Well he just wrote them down on paper and sang them. I'm still wondering though,

(1) Copywrite the music as instrumentals..If you had all the music down first , I would bet that his melodic ideas are derived to some extent from the music.
(A) Yes they are.

(2) He mentions copyright in there and mentioned something I wasn't aware of... current copyright laws don't let you copyright an arrangment - only a melody, and lyrics.
(A) How can I copywrite as an instrumental, if I can't copywrite a musical arrangment?
 
I am not a lawyer, but just trying to think through this logically. So if I'm off base sue me.

I would think that you would not want to copyright your arrangement, because technically only that specific arrangment would be protected. Someone could re-arrange it and have their own arrangement, while using the basic melodies you created.

For your instrumental, copyright the melody, that is the basic tune. If anyone rearranges it they are using your tune so you are protected.

If he wrote the words then they are his words. He can copyright them, however all he has are the words and meter, copyrighting the words doesn't mean he has any right to use the tune (that you wrote) with them. He needs to pay you royalties to use your tune, or he needs to come up with a new tune.

Pete
 
I'm getting ready now to fill out this SR Form. How picky are they at the reg. office? Do I just include the CD with the music to the songs or do I need to include the sheet music also? All the sheet music has is the chords.
 
incredible that even lawyers and lawmakers recognize that the melody is the most important thing of a song!
 
Thanks again Guys, I'm still tring to fill out this SR form. Is there any help files out there to get this thing filled out? Maybe If I call, they'll walk me though it....
 
Generally, when two people collaborate on a song, its a 50 50 split. Your "friend" sounds like he's trying to screw you. Copyright your melodies and chord changes using the existing arrangement without his words. Get it in first. Before you collaborate with anybody in the future, make sure the split is defined beforehand.
 
THANKS, I should Have known better. shit I hope it 's not to late. My girlfriend is working on the PA form right now. I thought we needed the SR form but according to the LOC. we needed the PA form. Man I drink to much>>>>>>> How "bout you?????
 
I phoned LOC about something similar - I'm getting involved in collaborations, and I wanted to know how to sort out the performance copyright registration. They told me I had two choices: either share the performance copyright of the entire album with anybody and everybody who performed on it (even if they performed on just one song, which is dumb) or get a written and signed disclaimer from them entitling you to the entire copyright. So, what a pain in the ass - you have to come across like some kind of control freak with people who are generously collaborating with you. So, like Crawdad says, spell it out beforehand if you have that option next time.
 
Flash,

Just so you know, your collaborator would have a difficult time screwing you out of your copyright. You have rights in your music without filing. It isn't like being the first to file for trademark protection, where the actual filing gives you rights. Your rights exist as soon as you wrote or recorded your songs.

Actually filing something with the Copyright Office does have benefits. It gives you good evidence that you were the first and actual author. Which would be helpful if your collaborator is going to lie and say he actually wrote the entire song.

As mentioned above, your collaborator has rights in his lyrics and you have rights in the music.

Thus, while filing for copyright protection is useful, you might not have to stress out too much about your collaborator filing for protection first.


Matt
 
Technically, as soon as you create a work, you have the copyright on it. Problem is all about proof. In this case, if your friend files for copyright using your music, you have a court battle--if anything happens where the music makes money. Go to the judge and say "I own the copyright on this music cause I wrote it!" and that won't really hold water. If you have a copyright form back from the copyright office with an earlier date than your fine "friend" then he can't claim the music is his. You tell the truth--that you wrote the music and he wrote words to it later. So the judge says 50 50 and the matter is done.
 
For those of you in the UK, as a law student myself who has also studied at American law schools, I think if I remember correctly that one automatically owns the copyright to their own work be it written, recorded on some form of media, performed etc. Check a Property lawyer if you are not sure.

The problem of course is often proving that you were the person who originally made the work and there are lots of documented cases of famous people being sued by unknowns who claim that they wrote something beforehand.

The copy rights to the recording itself are generally held by the PUBLISHERS NOT the engineers. They have automatic rights not to have the work reprouced etc etc etc without their permission (see warnings you always get on videos you buy or rent). The lyrics are usually the rights of the song writer/lyricist UNLESS (and this can happen to unwarey artists) they signed these away when they got that record deal they wanted so bad that they didnt read the small print!!! ;) The arrangement itself, to my knowledge can't be copy-writed and some companies actually specialize in exactly reproducing certain sections of a song so that an artist who would otherwise sample it doesn't need to pay royalties!

Talking of royalties remember if you use a sample check it out first!!!!! 'The Verve' lost ALL the money to their biggest hit and Brit number 1 'Bitter Sweet Symphony' as they used the tiniest sample of someone elses work without permission!!

If you have a record/publishing deal be aware of who owns the rights to what. You don't want a nasty shock.

I am sure Sound On Sound have an article on this in a back -issue. As I said, I would check this out with a property specialist before you rely on it.
 
http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/sep00/articles/music.htm

That's an article on SOS, maybe it's the one you mention.

There are 2 things that amaze me:

1) the high comissions that publishing companies charge
2) the HIGHLY speculative nature of this business, much higher than most of others. In that article it says companies break-even with just 5% of their artists. That's real low.

Cheers, Andrés
 
Yes, that is true. Some albums cost a fortune to record. Korn's latest album and Madonna's both cost literally millions of dollars to record. That means the record needs to go several times platinum just to cover the cost of recording!
 
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