Blank CD-R's

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dirtdog

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Since my last time into a computer store for blank CD's for use in my MasterLink, I see now that most major manufacturers are now offering blank CD's labelled "for Music".... My question is this; do these CD-R's offer any advantage over the other, older style? Or are the manufacturers just putting new labelling on the same basic product and then selling them at what seems to be a 50% or so higher retail price? Any thoughts or insights would be appreciated....I am willing to pay the extra $$$ if these are truly a superior product, but the CD's I have been using have been giving good results. Thanks!
 
Smoke and mirrors?

I have used varying "qualities" of blank media, and I have yet to find of hear a difference between any of them.

If it is blank, and can burn at at least 4X speed, I will use it, and it will work. It will play in any other CD player I have tried, etc.......

Others have had weird experiences with different blank media, but I suspect that these problems may have nothing to do with the media, rather, the burners they were using. I am sure that you can find all sorts of "technical" information about why a gold colored disk is better for burning then the green colored disks. But, I have found there is just no practical difference. I spent good money for a good burner, and all my disks come out working just fine.

Good luck.

Ed
 
Heh-heh...

DirtDog -- if what you're using works for ya - why worry about it? Changing blanks won't give you any sonic improvements, so if you're not having problems reading the blanks you currently use, stick with 'em!

PS - or you could pick one up and try it - but again how would you know its "better" than what you currently use??!!

:)

Bruce Valeriani
Blue Bear Sound
 
Ed and Bruce;
Thanks for your responses......I appreciate it! I figured if what I was previously using was working OK, that I had no need to buy the newer, more costly blanks. However, I was curious, and I knew where to go to get the scoop! Thanks again!
Dirtdog
 
CDR's labelled "FOR MUSIC" are preprogrammed with SCMS copy protection to keep you from copying a copy of a commercially released CD. It's the type of copy protection built in to all "Consumer" CD Recorders. "Professional" CD Recorders don't have SCMS, or make it available if you want to protect your CD's from copying. The "For Music" CDR's aren't better CDR's, they just cost more because of the SCMS and because of the $$ they pay back to some music corporation because of the copying they assume will happen with non-professional CD Recorders.
 
Neptune;

Thanks for your reply.....it all kinda makes sense to me now!! I guess I won't be so harsh on the manufacturers...I figured it was just a gimmickry to justify higher profit margins. Thanks for the enlightenment.....
Dirtdog
 
Neptune said:
CDR's labelled "FOR MUSIC" are preprogrammed with SCMS copy protection to keep you from copying a copy of a commercially released CD. It's the type of copy protection built in to all "Consumer" CD Recorders. "Professional" CD Recorders don't have SCMS, or make it available if you want to protect your CD's from copying. The "For Music" CDR's aren't better CDR's, they just cost more because of the SCMS and because of the $$ they pay back to some music corporation because of the copying they assume will happen with non-professional CD Recorders.
Click to expand...
Er, no... that's not correct...

SCMS is a bit set within a digital datastream - usually SPDIF. AES/EBU data streams ignore SCMS - it is NOT an attribute of the storage media itself. It was put there to avoid digital transfers from unit to unit... it wouldn't make sense to "burn it" (somehow??) onto the blank CD-R because that would stop you from being able to do ANY digital transfers (even the initial recording you intended to burn in the first place!)

Professional gear usually allows parameter setting to include or ignore SCMS during transfers... consumer gear, on the other hand, always takes the SCMS bit into account.

Bruce Valeriani
Blue Bear Sound
 
But the "Music Only" CDR's are different from Data CDR's, and it's because of SCMS. I looked up lots of info on it before I bought my CD Recorder. I'll try to find some links for you guys.
 
Neptune....

I'm sorry, but you have misunderstood how SCMS gets implemented - SCMS is NOT a media characteristic.

From the Harmony Central site:
(http://www.harmony-central.com/Features/CDRecorder/004.html)

"Standalone CD recorders are made by many of the leading names in audio, including Alesis, Fostex, HHB, Marantz, Philips, Tascam, and Yamaha. Consumer decks (including Philips models 765 and 880, Marantz CD700, and Pioneer PD-R04, PD-R05, PD-R55RW, and PD-R99) are the least expensive. However, they require that you use special CD-Rs (generally designated as "CD-DA," "CD Audio," or "For Music Use Only") that cost several dollars more per disc (the price includes royalties called for by the Audio Home Recording Act). These machines also include the Serial Copy Management System (SCMS), which prevents the making of a digital copy from a digital copy."

As the paragraph clearly demonstrates -it's the CD-RECORDERS themselves that incorporate SCMS, not the media -- and the premium price tag is to compensate for additional royalties....

Trust me... I wouldn't lie to ya... ;)

Bruce Valeriani
Blue Bear Sound
 
I trust you, I apparently misunderstood the details about SCMS. The Audio Only CDR's must have something different about them, because the consumer CD Recorders can only record on those. What exactly is the difference in the media itself? Something tells the recorder which type of CDR it is, and keeps the consumer machines from recording on regular data CDR's, while the professional machines can use either type.
 
*That* is a good question - and one I don't happen to know the answer to... if my pro gear can use "music only" CD-Rs as easily as standard CD-R blanks, then the media can't be all that different...

Anyone else out there know?? Ed???

Bruce Valeriani
Blue Bear Sound
 
Looking for that needle in the haystack....

I will tell you, I have been the most frustrated researching two subject that concern recording:

1- Dithering
2- CDR technology

It would seem both are stuff that is only discussed in back rooms of the worlds elite and not shared in any "laymens" terms on the internet.

Here are a few links that may or may not help.

http://www.emediapro.net/EM1998/starrett10.html

http://www.fadden.com/cdrfaq/ (this one covers a lot, but nothing conclusive on this particular subject. But the media type being used is mentioned and explained a bit).

Bottom line seems to be that media label "For Audio" has hash marks that are read by the burner that tell the burner that this is a Audio CDR, thus, SCMS is applied automatically. Also, it is suggested that disks can be optimized for 1X speed burns by applying different dye formulations and materials in combination.

It would seem that there is no real standard among different CD HARDWARE per se except their ability to read professionally manufactured CD's. As far as how they write, and what type of media they work best with, well, each burner has it's own thing going on. The cdrfaq link I provided above suggests that one needs to experiment with different media, and possibly different burners to find the combo that works best for burning CDR's that will play in most playback systems. But, it also suggests that if there is any older technology involved (an old CD player, etc....) that the chances of problems are increased.

So, you both have a point about why For Audio CDR blanks are different, and more costly!

Good luck in the search on this subject! I am tired of the reading....:)

Ed
 
Well... I guess I put my foot in my mouth... Neptune - you're right about the "For Music Only" CD-Rs.... They are pitted differently.... Hey, I guess I DON'T know everything after all!!! ;)

I'd wouldn't EVER use them personally if that's the case - too much danger of gear incompatibility - they say pro gear works NOW, but that may not always be the case in the future!

Ya gotta HATE these crappy "copy-prevention" schemes these guys come up with...........

:)

Bruce Valeriani
Blue Bear Sound
 
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