Black Hole Studio Pics

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Steve, uhh, the checks in the mail buddy,,,,, and consider yourself,,,, "on hold" lol
Lets discuss "mirroring" in greater detail.

Michael, Ill definately let you know if we do the show, cheering sections are always generously rewarded..... :-)

Sdudio dimentions,,,, 20'x24'x8' with an 11' vaulted ceiling...
 
"Lets discuss "mirroring" in greater detail" -

Pretty simple concept once you understand that the only path to your ears from the speakers should be the DIRECT one, at least until the reflected path is more than about 20 milliseconds longer than the direct one.

This translates to a minimum reflection path length that's more than about 20 feet longer than the direct one.

The easiest way to find the wall/ceiling areas that MUST have absorption, is to have a helper place a mirror flat against any surfaces you think may be reflective paths, and if you can see either speaker in the mirror then that area should have absorption placed on it.

Next, if you're dealing with parallel walls, placing absorbent in alternating squares on those parallel walls will treat flutter echo without complete deadening. Other than the previously mentioned "mirror" areas, these other areas should be alternated. If one side of the room has absorbent, the opposite side should be bare, and conversely.

If your room is already too dead and still has flutter problems (handclaps or popped balloons cause ringing) then another approach is to "un-parallel" the walls - there are a few ways to accomplish this, but I won't go into it right now - you only asked about the "mirror" trick :=) ... Steve
 
What are the benefits of the blankets (the ones on the ceiling)? are they also used as cloud traps? It seems to be simple enuff to make.
 
Hi_D_Ho_Man said:
What are the benefits of the blankets (the ones on the ceiling)? are they also used as cloud traps? It seems to be simple enuff to make.
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The blankets on the ceiling were just temporary make shift absorbers and have since been replaced with the kind of absorbers "clouds" you see in the upper gable, theres three of them at a ninety degree angle to the ridge between the fans. Dont waste your time or money on the blanket idea, it doesnt work nearly as well fiberglass absorbers..
Jim
 
is to have a helper place a mirror flat against any surfaces you think may be reflective paths, and if you can see either speaker in the mirror then that area should have
absorption placed on it.
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How big of mirror Steve, as a 6" square shows a smaller reflection than a 24" square. A 48" may show the monitor where a 6" won't, MAYBE?
fitZ:p
 
Depends on your budget, Rick - if you're short on cash, use a dental mirror - that way you can use teensy-weensy pieces of absorbent...

Actually, a good mirror for this is one of those cheap K'mart special dressing mirrors, they're light weight and large enough to tell where the center of the reflective area is.

Seriously, though (just in case you're serious, or others THINK you were) I wouldn't use much smaller than 2 foot square chunks of absorbent for anything, and more like 4' x 4' for a reflective location. The 2 footers would be more for doing a checkerboard setup on opposing parallel walls - you can even do them rotated 45 degrees for a more interesting diamond pattern.

Hey, din'cha like my little "pome"? I rit it jist fer ewe -

http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113875

Purty kewl, huh? :=))... Steve
 
Hello Steve, yes I read it. I'm honored to be the subject of one of your famous poems:p As to "having a long way to go", your absolutely correct, as usual. Unfortunately, I will have to prematurely end my journey through the rabbit hole, as it is becoming no fun and a "no brainer". As one member here so aptly put it, why spend so much time learning everything I can learn about acoustics, for a one time shot at treating a home studio, only to file away all that hard learned data in permenent memory. I never intended to become a fluent acoustics advice expert in the first place, and as I've recently discovered, attempting to do so without
'expert" credentials is placing ones self in an "exposed" position. Especially when you consider that my knowledge is simply gained from word of mouth, sources that turn out to be less than factual themself, and backing my word in a "belief system" instead of personal test, education and experience. Not to mention constantly looking over my shoulder to see if I've inadvertantly said some stupid net reply that contradicts scientific reality. Sharing "fact" with people is indeed an enjoyable experience as it gives one a sense of respect in a shared interest community. However, when you discover your foundation is built on silt instead of bedrock, belief system construction is subject to collapse. And man I'm not about to live in a house of straw anymore. You are more fortunate, as yours is backed by years of study, investigation, and personal relationship with those who possess scientific credentials.

I've still got my share of questions, but they will become less important over time as I put this interest into perspective, just as my curiosity about black holes has. And btw, I just received a couple of "reality check" answers from Mr. Campanella and Eric, that substantiates my mistrust and hastens my decision to terminate my journey. All is not what it seems even in professional "handbooks", and a peek into the pool of trust simply reflects myself. I may fail from time to time, in as much as this may prove to be more difficult than quiting smoking ;) so don't hold me to it. Good luck with your journey Steve. May you find all the answers you seek. Oh, and thanks for the poem. Even it helped confirm my decision.

Now for the REAL question..... where did I put that hammer?.....:confused: ;)

fitZ

:)
 
Interesting, this coming Wednsday will be two weeks for me in the "non smoking" wrelm..... Its really not that difficult, IF, its truly what you want to have happen, Its a mental issue that has to be overcome with the absolute desire to decide whos in control. Like many other things, it takes preparation and commitment to the objective to the point of "failure is not an option"...
Jim
 
Rick, I understand your pain completely - when I started on my own quest over 20 years ago, I was in exactly the same boat (you know, the be-calmed one :=) and merely wanted to know enough to NOT make the same mistakes I did in my first space (like NOT having my wife be able to tell from a separate building 100 feet away, just what I was playing on an acoustic piano, for example) - The more I looked, the less I knew - although I've got a long way to go to become a complete idiot, I'm close enough to claim serious stupidity...

In my case, I finally reached a point where a small portion of the chaos started to make sense, and I found that I actually LIKED figuring this stuff out (well, sorta) - meantime, 20 years goes by and I'm getting close to being able to kiss my DDJ goodbye; when you combine that prospect with the fact that our government and corporate mafia are busily selling our entire lives to the lowest bidder, my only hope for a lucrative endeavor is to know stuff that can't be learned overnight, or else do like half of India and answer phones in unintelligible english for $.50 an hour. Not an option, no matter HOW much I like to talk.

In your case, you want a place for your toys that won't screw up their capabilities but don't want to invest that much of your life in it - you've also had enough of a taste of the myriad options from diverse minds/ears in the acoustics field to become thoroughly non-plussed by the whole thing -

Not to worry - I really think that you can take this in stages and arrive at a solution that works for you - that's the plan I'm going with for my own facility, partly because of all the chaos and partly because it's very difficult (if not impossible) to guess what a space will sound like until it's there in living concrete. So the trick is to build something that's "tweakable" and without GLARING errors in judgement (no CUBES, for example) - then, you TWEAK it til you're happy, and get on with the FUN part (like choosing proper colored lava lamps, etc)

My advice to you - when you're ready to commit, show me your plans and reasons, (including fire stops :=) - we'll hash it out, it gets built, then we see what it sounds like and fix that part.

Meantime, try not to let all the chaos get you down - it's there because you're getting input from so many different minds. I tend to think that if ALL those minds gathered in the same room and discussed each and every point of contention, there would be a lot less variance than you think. The more I listen to this stuff, the more congruity I see - it's just presented in different terms in a lot of cases. ALL the concepts you labor over are important, but nearly all of them can be compensated for in one way or another.

Gotta go pull the starter on my backhoe while the weather's co-operating - meantime, try and relax a bit - I'll be around to keep you from making any HUGE boo-boo's, just ask BEFORE you build. The smaller ones can usually be re-done if necessary, if you plan ahead a bit.

Jim, sorry for the long-windedness - your decision to quit is "music to my ears" - and likely at least an extra ten years for you to MAKE music - congratulations, and I hope you stick with it... Steve
 
Amped said:
Interesting, this coming Wednsday will be two weeks for me in the "non smoking" wrelm..... Its really not that difficult, IF, its truly what you want to have happen, Its a mental issue that has to be overcome with the absolute desire to decide whos in control. Like many other things, it takes preparation and commitment to the objective to the point of "failure is not an option"...
Jim
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Congrats.

I've not smoked for a while myself! Did 131 days, then I started again while hanging sheetrock in the studio, then stopped again about two months ago. 63 days and counting!

Whats keeping me of the cigs is my spending the $6 a day on other things :D
 
In your case, you want a place for your toys that won't screw up their capabilities but don't want to invest that much of your life in it - you've also had enough of a taste of the myriad options from diverse minds/ears in the acoustics field to become thoroughly non-plussed by the whole thing -
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I hear this. I for one do have the aptitude to learn acoustics, its essentially just mathematics, but the time it would take to invest in learning such things would grossly exceed what I'd get out of it. My studio will never be a "perfect" space, nor am I trying to achieve that.

"Perfection" is the evil ruiner of "Good Enough".

Plus the human body is amazing... regardless of how good, or not good a particular space is, it just takes time to get used to the environment and you can automatically compensate for it. Years ago I used to mix with headphones, and my mixes were terrible. Took about 6 months to get things where the mixers were at least average, if not a little better. Was just practice, and training myself with my space and equipment.

Same for my current studio project, it won't be ideal, it will have some acoustical problems which I'll treat enough that it will sound okay, and then I'll get used to it.

I'd much rather spend my time re-learning my environment to make good recordings than learning complex mathematics I'll probably never use again.

Thats why I'm here, and thats why I like you guys. Those of you with this knowledge are more than happy to share, which I really appreciate more than words can describe.

plans and reasons, (including fire stops :=) - we'll hash it out, it gets built, then we see what it sounds like and fix
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I guess no one liked my comments regarding firestops on Michael's thread.

Gotta go pull the starter on my backhoe while the weather's co-operating - meantime, try and relax a bit - I'll be around to keep you from making any HUGE boo-boo's, just ask BEFORE you build. The smaller ones can usually be re-done if necessary, if you plan ahead a bit.
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Spring is here for sure, though tonight supposively NJ is getting a dusting of snow. Which reminds me, I have to wheel the 600cid stroker motor back into the garage.

Can't have the pretty aluminum get all wet. :D
 
Hey gents, thanks mucho for the positive comments. I feel better already. This whole thing was becomeing a big drag for me. I wasn't cut out for that. Work is enough as it is, and this was becoming WORK:eek: :rolleyes: ; Anyway, sorry for not getting right back to you on this. I DO appreciate all the help and don't think I won't be asking for DIRECT help when the time comes. I'm just not going to think about this stuff for a while. Its time to relax and enjoy this hobby, cause dammit, if it aint FUN, it ain't a hobby, and if it aint a hobby, its work....FUCK WORK. I work all day, so I've got to get some enjoyment out of this. Soooooo, its back to lava lamps and aluminum extrusions....hahahahaha! Now that stuff, I KNOW about!! Its all about making an environment that I like. As well as listen to music and do a little recording. Even if it doesn't sound like a million dollar studio, fuck, I'll be happy and man thats what I need more than anything. Happiness!! But this doesn't mean I'm done with posting here. Just not about acoustics...shit, theres more to studio than just that. So, with that said, thanks again for your sincere and generous offer Steve. And frederic, if I see one of those Ford gauges in your console, I'll know your up to something....and you better SHARE it with me!! Hahahahaha!!

Hey Jim, your studio looks GREAT...man I can't wait to be that far along....and good luck with the smoking.....thats next for me, but first its acoustics withdrawall... :p one at a time!!hahaha

fitZ:)
 
No prob, Rick - BTW, thanks for posting that link to google's acoustics forum - other than the dickless twit "ghost", some good stuff there. Followed it to Univ. of Salford and Professor Trevor Cox's not yet available book on diffusors/absorbers - only $144 from Amazon, can't wait :=)

Frederic, it's not that I didn't like your firestop info (just the opposite) it's just that I too had NOT covered any of that or even had the time to chime in. I freakin' HATE bureaucrats and the fact that they get away with bullying hard working citizens in order to justify their crappy existence - it wouldn't be so bad if they offered SOLUTIONS instead of just problems and NO CONSISTENCY - Oh well, LABTYD... Steve
 
Amped said:
You know now, ok? Man, if all you can do is dog my monitor placement, Ill take that as a compliment. The room is very new and theres a ton of fine tuning to do,. Im pretty proud of it and just wanted ya'll to see the results of months and months of research and hard work. Its by no means perfect, but its a good start.
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Man everybody starts somewhere. Im not sure why the experienced folks always down the rest, but do your thing. If its comfortable and is giving you a good sound. I say go for it. Like you said, there's a lot of fine tuning to do. But as far as the monitors go, they should be placed so that it creates a PERFECT triangle with your head as one of the points as equal distances. But I think your doing fine. Keep at it. It takes money to make money and when you make it, then you can move up. =]

Good job, good luck
Smoove
 
Frederic, it's not that I didn't like your firestop info (just the opposite) it's just that I too had NOT covered any of that or even had the time to chime in. I freakin' HATE bureaucrats and the fact that they get away with bullying hard working citizens in order to justify their crappy existence - it wouldn't be so bad if they offered SOLUTIONS instead of just problems and NO CONSISTENCY - Oh well, LABTYD... Steve [/B]
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I was wondering... because that particular section of fire code has always irritated me to no end because it just doesn't make sense. What Michael was required to do is completely ineffective, and a waste of his time and money from a fire perspective. Obviously its not a waste if he wants to comply with local building codes.

I just didn't want Michael to have a false sense of security in something thats required, but useless as dictated.

I remember like it was yesterday, a particular county in upstate NY was hassling a general contractor over steel doors. See, the building code was to have steel doors in this building because it was commercial space - i.e. public access.

The outside block walls no one had a problem putting in steel doors, but more than half of the inner walls were constructed with metal studs with sheet rock screwed to that, which in turn reached the suspended ceiling, but didn't go through it, as the suspended ceiling was there first.

So why put steel doors in these walls? It was absolutely ludicrous. They'd do nothing, and it required the GC to tear down sections of these false walls to reinforce them to support the additional weight of the steel doors and frames.

I'm glad I was just the electrical contractor, we just slapped outlets all over the place and ran the subpanels down to the basement.

Friggen building inspectors.

I've met some really good inspectors, both building code and fire, over the years. Good people who take their jobs seriously and more interested in protecting people (which is what their job really is) than following poorly worded code with their own interpretation. But those that are "code monkeys" should just be shot.
 
Looks good and I wish your continued success in recording!!!
Many people make light of many situations, but I tend to encourage people to keep striving for what you want to get out of any project!



Trizza
 
You'll only see the monitor in a small place on the mirror though..... :p
 
Thank you very much Fitz, Smoove and Trizza, mucho appreciated. Im going to try to get a few pics of the DIY sandfilled, de-coupled stands the monitors are resting on hopefully this week.
Oh, and by the way,, smoke free since February 24th,,,,,,,, YAY ME!
 
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