Bit of advice needed....

[dm99jme]

Hey guys,

I'm relatively new to all this, more a composer getting into recording my more "songwritery" moments. I'm mostly using Cubase VST 32 on a high spec PC with various hardware and loads of plugins.

The idea of "soundstage" is relatively new to me, I've figured out using Reverb for distance, using it as a send effect and the panning business was obvious, but I'm having trouble with the frequency aspect, in that I find it hard to get defined sounds in the same "sound space". I hear people using phrases like "cut holes out of the guitar" and I understand the principle, just don't seem to be able to put it into practice so well.

Any tips would be gratfully received, for example I'm working up a song at the moment that's likely to end up as acoustic guitar (fairly sparse picking, so I've got quite a rich sound using a large diaphragm condensor at fr 12 and a small diaphragm just below the sound hole to get some defiition in the bass which has worked really well), double bass, percussion (not ironed out the details yet), Rhodes, Vocals and some fairly distant very verby electric guitar DId with amp /mic modelling. I'm likely to have the acoustic guitar, double bass and vocal dead centre - how do I bring the bass out without cutting the lovely bass sound I've got on the guitar (bearing in mind the double bass is soooo bassy that the mids and high have to be emphasised quite a lot anyway)? And then the same with the vocals...?

Also what do I use to do it? I've been using the mixer eq on the cubase console - is this up to the job?

Cheers

 

[manning1]

carving out spaces is difficult for everybody. i'm not sure i can add much,
but ive found sometimes using very pure signal chains and top mics can
just be too much sometimes. because every track sounds so good. but things can get cluttered. ive found sometimes using great mics on upfront tracks is good , but maybe using different mics on backing tracks to the
upfront tracks. one thing i DO KNOW from experience and having talked to some pretty neat engineering people at audio engineering society shows i once attended is the idea of cutting eq rather than boosting, and the importance of q factors in carving out spaces. for example if you have background tracks that are overwhelming the upfront track at certain frequencies its best to use eq cut at those frequencies on the background tracks rather than eq boost on the up front track. but it really varies from song to song. the other thing hammered into me repeatedly by an engineer once in the states was not to have lots of effects going at once. for example say there is a point in the song where there is a nice interplay between two acoustic guitars playing lead licks upfront in the mix, ensure this is the focus for the listener with maybe some effect, and dont use a lot
of effect on the backing tracks at that point to confuse the listener. basically i was told - think of the listener as being dumb, so you only want one effect going at a time rather than swamping all tracks in effects.
as your a composer , you might find this an interesting package which is a songwriters aid. its great for flushing out quick song ideas. if youve never tried band in a box (pgmusic.com) , give the demo a try sometime. basically it lets you build a back up band in software. eg...drums. bass. piano etc.
and is based on selecting music styles and entering song chord sequences. it can be highly effective, particularly with someone that has music theory training. once you have a song the way you like it (ie.."the backup band"),
then you just import into cubase and add your vocals and any final live overdubs. thus you dont need to record as many live tracks as the back up band is created for you. just an idea if you didnt know about it.peace.

 

[ssscientist]

I've got quite a rich sound using a large diaphragm condensor at fr 12 and a small diaphragm just below the sound hole to get some defiition in the bass

Have you bumped into the concept of phase cancellation between mics yet? If not, a two-mic setup like the one described above will almost certainly acquaint you with it, possibly to the detriment of the project.

I strongly recommend going with one mic on the acoustic guitar and moving it around until it captures everything you are looking for in the guitar sound. Any decent large diaphragm condensor should get everything you need without risking the nightmare of phase problems.

 

[dm99jme]

Thanks chaps.

Have you bumped into the concept of phase cancellation between mics yet? If not, a two-mic setup like the one described above will almost certainly acquaint you with it, possibly to the detriment of the project.
.

Actually no, not between mics, but the idea certainly makes sense now you mention it. Could this explain some loss of "sparkle" from the high end on one of the tracks at all?

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Mixing 101