big mic upgrade advice !!!!

[AndyTB_UK]

hey all, am about to upgrade nearly ALL my mics so looking for some insight and opinions from everyone else ! ANY help would be much appreciated...

I mostly record rock/punk/ska/metal and have lots of people asking me to record them for money, especially since i just bought a soundcraft ghost and alesis hd24 !! so here goes..

(1) Vocal wise, i've been using a sm58, and have been looking at a rode ntk... very warm sound, but is it good enough as a general purpose vox mic until i can afford a second one ??

The rest are more of less drum wise.. i already have a a/t pro-25 (old version of the atm 25 i think) which i love, and a couple sm58'sand a 57. however, my toms mics are poor copies of sennheiser e604s, and my overheads are very cheap pencil condensors.

SO i was thinking a couple of rode nt1's for overheads, as my room here is very nice sounding.. however, am i going to be hindered when igo out to record bands and find thta the room i'm stuck with sounds bad ? what are the good alternatives in that price range ? i'm not too big a fan of c1000's !

And as for toms.. i've been lucky enough to hear how good sennheiser md421's sound, but can't really afford them ! so all i can think of car that is a couple more sm57's, or some sennheiser e604's... anyone have any opinions on those, or offer any good-sounding alternatives in that price range too ? i'm a little dubious about mics that clip onto the rims, but don't have much to go on experience wise !

snare wise i'm sorted with a sm57, and i was going to use the cheap condensors on the hats and ride for now, as they're quite bright and sparkly despite being cheap !

everything else is ok, so please please help and opinions !! thanks in advance...

 

[noisedude]

Hi Andy,

Have a good read of the Mic Faq. It will help you get somewhere on your answers.

I'M ASSUMING YOU'RE IN THE UK! For overheads, you're basically looking at Oktava MK012s, Studio Projects C4s and what Red5 are offering. If I were you I'd get one of those Red5 drumkit mic sets - a well-respected reviewer ('Dot' - Dan Richards) on here loves them (except for the cheap battery powered pencil condensers - get the ones with the LDCs for overheads) and they're very cheap.

I can't help you with vocal mics really, as I am still on the hunt for ones that work for me in my price range.

Ignore anyone who says Marshall MXL603s - they aren't available for sensible money over here.

Hope that helps.

Nik

 

[AlexW]

As far as a vocal mic goes, search the recent threads on that subject, but probably a large diaphragm condenser (LDC) is a good bet. There are some affordable ones that are decent if you don't want to bust your budget.

As far as drum mic'ing goes, consider using your AT Pro-25 on your floor tom and getting a new kick mic. Shure Beta 52 and AKG D112 are typical favorites. The Sennheiser E604's I like on rack toms; but an SM57 can work as well. As far as overheads, there are a number of suitable small diaphragm condensers that can work. I like and use the Marshal 603s which are fairly inexpensive. Search the forum a bit as there have been other recent threads on this subject.

Your room is likely to play a big part. Play around with different mic positions and configurations on your drum kit to get the best sound you can going in.

 

[chessparov]

Wouldn't pick the NTK as an "all rounder", some singers (like me) sound too sibilant on it. Multi-patterns like the Studio Projects T3, AT 4060,
perhaps the Rode K2 (haven't heard), should be on the shortlist to try out.

BTW the MD421 is a great solo vocal mic for many singers, and can record group vocals, up to a trio. With. a good mic pre that '58 will shine too.

IIRC the (new) Joe Meek ThreeQ's, for example, are reasonably priced in the UK. They have the same pre as in the Toft line.

Chris

 

[noisedude]

I like and use the Marshal 603s which are fairly inexpensive.

As I say, these are not available for sensible money in the UK.

Yes Chris - the preamp is the same as in the Toft - the threeQ costs £115 from www.dv247.com.

Here's the link to the Red5 website:
http://www.red5audio.com/

I really think you should check them out. The other mics that are priced fairly by comparison to the US - i.e. you're not getting ripped off - are Studio Projects and ADK. SE Electronics are a touch more expensive relatively, and then everything else is pretty much a rip-off. So if you can find something from those brands that works for you - you get a bargain.

Of course, we all have to pay over the odds for the right mic here, so be prepared for that!! I checked recently on an MXL package with a 2001 and a 603, it cost £180 here and about $160 in the US. For the Americans - that's like paying more than $300 for those two mics!

 

[franksquid]

My best advice is to find out how much you can spend on mics. Reach a dollar amount that hurts...an amount that would make a normal person cry. OK, now DOUBLE that amount an your almost there.

Now seriously, mics are tools that should last for the rest of your life. Buy the best now, ESPECIALLY if you're trying to build a reputation by recording other people.

Now read the forums and do search's, all the info you are looking for is already here. Read until your eyes bleed and then read some more. You'l find out fast who knows their stuff and who just likes to hear themselves talk.

Once you have determined the mics that you must have, go to ebay. Its incredible the money you can save on NIB mics and you can get some great deals on LNIB stuff too.

Best of luck!

 

[AlexW]

As I say, these are not available for sensible money in the UK.

Yeah, sorry about that. I was typing my post at the same time you were. Didn't see it till after and figured I didn't need to edit it at that point anyway.

 

[noisedude]

No, it's cool - just didn't want him worrying. When I joined here I spent about three months wondering how to get hold of some of these fabled MXL mics ... then realised there were plenty of alternatives I hadn't heard of either

 

[darnold]

If you are expecting the the Rode NTK to be a warm mic you might be dissapointed when it gets their. Everything ive heard on the NTk has been quite bright. Good sounding mic though. But it can be a bit harsh on things.

Its hard to say what vocal mics will be good in that area. Its really hard to get vocals right in those kind of application in my opinion.

Its really difficult to make very accurate decisions for you because we dont know your exact budget and i dont know what is available in the UK.

As far as the kick mic goes, those AT ATM 25 Pros are awesome from what ive heard. Infact i plan on getting one myself. The ATM25 Pro has been made famous in my book by Ryan Green. Thats what he uses most of the time on his kick drum. He records the majority of the Fat Wreck Chords label bands. NOFX, No Use For a Name, Swinging Utters, Mad Caddies, Less Than Jake (their knew stuff). Ryan also says he hates the sound of the AKG D112. But it is still a valid option. But i dont see a high priority in trying to upgrade from the the ATM 25 Pro.

I recommended snagging at least one MD421. Mainly for its multipurpose applications in this area. It will be one of your better choices on the floor tom and can be used as an alternative kick. It also works awesome on guitar amps and on some vocals. Also on bass cab. So if you can at least snag one of these you will be in good shape. The Sennheiser e604s are good on the rest of the toms, but arnt as great on the floor tom.

SM57 is fine on snare. Better alternatives might be a Beyer ribbon or the Beta 57. I recommend micing the underside of the drum with the hard hitters youll be recording. I think almost any mic will work in this area. Just dont get it too bright and get it as close the the head as you can.

Overheads are going to be your hardest option. I recommend AKG C414s but those are pretty expensive and might not be available to you. Oktavas are a good choice for the low budget, and you will get alot of uses out of them. But the C414s will also work as a great vox mic and all around versatile mic.

From what i know, theirs not much difference between Rode NT1s and the AKG C1000. The Rode probably sounds better still, but not a major difference. I wish i had more alternatives for you hear. But i have not tried very many small condensers in this range.

danny

 

[noisedude]

Danny - the ATM25 and the Pro 25 are different mics. The ATM25 is the awesome one, the Pro25 is just very very good. I have a friend who just bought the ATM25 yesterday, so I'm gonna get him up this end of the country and see how good it is. I'm not hugely enamoured with the D112 sound, but that is probably largely not having taken time to play with placement.

 

[darnold]

Whoops.

Didnt notice that. Sorry about that.

Danny

 

[noisedude]

It's cool - make sure you get the right one, that's all!! I'm yet to hear a bad word about the ATM25 ... even if it does seem to be named after a cash machine.

 

[billisa]

hey all, am about to upgrade nearly ALL my mics so looking for some insight and opinions from everyone else !

Why the sad face on your post? This is supposed to be a 'appy occasion!

 

[elementary]

hey man. Pick up a pair of groove tubes gt33s if theyre still on offer at www.dv247.com they are reduced to 99 quid each from about 250 each i think. excellent as overheads and on acoustic guitars etc.

 

[AndyTB_UK]

Thanks all for the advice, keep it coming !

The reason i've kept my AT Pro-25 is mainly because i prefer the sound of it to the D112. It's a good sounding mic, but then i haven's had the chance to hear a ATM25 yet so couldn't compare the two !

As for overheads, yea i recorded in a studio that used AKG414's and the sound was sweeeeeet but my nudget in abit more modest... i was allowing £300 for a vocal mic and around £260ish for overheads.. but if an overhead could double up as a vocal mic for a while that would mean the budget could move slightly ! recommendations with that in mind ? like i said i'm mostly recording rock/punk.ska/metal bands.

I love those md421's, but it's finding them inexpensively that's proving hard. are they good second hand buys ? otherwise i'm looking at e604's/sm57's, maybe even a nice new atm25, then my pro-25 could go onto floor toms.

and lastly.. i haven't had the chance to use one yet, but is the beta 57 really much better than the ordinary sm57 for snare recording ??

Cheers one and all !

P.s. billisa, it's supposed to be a confused face, not an unhappy one !!!

 

[noisedude]

What's better than the SM57 for snare recording is the Senn E835 or 845. And not more expensive ... worth considering!

GT33s might be a really good option - that and SP C4s. The multi-capsule Oktavas are out of your range I think, but you could get the cardioid only ones?

If you could swing a pair of C414s and then something a little different for a vocal mic you may be most happy. If you got something very different-sounding it would give you some choice.

 

[darnold]

Andy,

ultimately my biggest recommendation for you is to buy everything second hand. You wont suffer quality but you will get it for alot cheaper. Then if you dont like the mic, you sell it for what you bought it for and get a different one.

If your doing alot of ska youll want something that can do horns too. AKG C414s are good for that too.

I think C414s work pretty well as vocal mics too, they just arnt flavorfull. I would almost recommend getting a C414 now, oktavas for the overheads. Then later on trying to get another C414 when you can.

When you are limited on mic selection, its a much better idea to get very versatile mics isntead of favorfull only works for vocals mics.

I think C414s can be had for around 5-600 US used, maybe even lower now.

MD421s you can find for about 150-200. Which is a great deal.

The big advantage with a Beta 57 is the hypercardiod. Works alot like the 57 but youll get a little more seperation, which you might like for you situation.

Studio Projects B1s and B3s should also be a pretty good choice for versatility. Cept i hate them on horns. But they are options too.

Danny