Better off with SM57 or Condenser for this Application

[Alexrkstr]

Hey guys,

Curious to know if I am better off mic'ing my Vox AC4TV with my MXL 990 or 991, AudioTechnica dynamic V2 mic, or since everyone and their mother has an SM57 that's what will sound better?

 

[gecko zzed]

Try them all out and see which you like best

 

[Alexrkstr]

Try them all out and see which you like best

Thanks gecko... I would if I owned an SM57... that is the reason why I am asking... to see if my sound quality will improve. I was not born yesterday nor am I mentally or logically challenged....

Now, if someone can take the question seriously I would appreciate a comparison of a cheap condenser to the SM57.

 

[WhiteStrat]

Thanks gecko... I would if I owned an SM57... that is the reason why I am asking... to see if my sound quality will improve. I was not born yesterday nor am I mentally or logically challenged....

Now, if someone can take the question seriously I would appreciate a comparison of a cheap condenser to the SM57.

I'm pretty sure he did take your question seriously. No where in your post did you say that you didn't own a 57, so how should we know?

And what exactly does "better" sound like??? You want someone else to tell you which of your mics will make your amp sound "better?"

Try asking something like "Why are dynamics so preferred over condensers for amps?" or "are there different micing approaches to clean vs. dirty guitars?" (You don't even mention what type of guitar playing you'd like to record--yes it makes a difference.)

And if you want a comparison of your cheap condenser vs. a 57, start by comparing yourself to the AT dynamic you already have. While obviously not just like the 57, it will behave similarly and you'll see how condensers (in general) perform vs. dynamics (in general) on guitar amps.

Hope this was taking your question seriously enough for you.

 

[Alexrkstr]

I'm pretty sure he did take your question seriously. No where in your post did you say that you didn't own a 57, so how should we know?

And what exactly does "better" sound like??? You want someone else to tell you which of your mics will make your amp sound "better?"

Try asking something like "Why are dynamics so preferred over condensers for amps?" or "are there different micing approaches to clean vs. dirty guitars?" (You don't even mention what type of guitar playing you'd like to record--yes it makes a difference.)

And if you want a comparison of your cheap condenser vs. a 57, start by comparing yourself to the AT dynamic you already have. While obviously not just like the 57, it will behave similarly and you'll see how condensers (in general) perform vs. dynamics (in general) on guitar amps.

Hope this was taking your question seriously enough for you.

OK so my question was a bit ambiguous, and I did not mention which ones I own. I'll take that.

Now back to the question and more information on what I am trying to do:
I have the following:
- Vox AC4TV
- Gibson Les Paul (clean crunchy rhythms for verses and overdriven/saturated guitars for chorus)

I have tried the vocal mic and it sounded as it was missing frequencies - not sure how to explain that. The condenser sounded more "real". It might have been the mic placement? Not sure. The condenser sounded OK but a bit bright at times?

By "better" I mean fatter distortions, and cleaner more articulated full rhythms.

Sorry if I came across to strong earlier.

 

[gecko zzed]

I have tried the vocal mic and it sounded as it was missing frequencies - not sure how to explain that. The condenser sounded more "real". It might have been the mic placement? Not sure. The condenser sounded OK but a bit bright at times?

It seems you've answered your own question.

 

[Alexrkstr]

It seems you've answered your own question.

So I presume the SM57 will have the same effect as the AT? Minimal difference?

So how do I get a better sound?

 

[WhiteStrat]

So based on what you've now said, I assume you're recording heavy or distorted guitars as opposed to clean guitars? It does matter, because while I'd prefer an SM57 over a condenser for both--I could get a condenser to work for clean--but not for dirty guitars.

Most folks (me included) find a condenser to be too bright and harsh for distorted guitars. One will often be used as a second mic to round out a sound, but a dynamic (like a 57) is most often preferred.

The most important thing about recording an amp (after the amps sound of course) is mic placement. When I first started, I put it up where I thought it "looked" logical and it sounded like crap. So I started reading and reading, and found that a very small movement can make a big difference (revelation #1)

So I put my ear close to the speaker while playing (at a lower volume) to listen for the "sweet spot"--and guess what--it all sounded like crap. I loved the sound of my amp, but that was standing 6 feet away. Right up by the speaker it didn't sound nearly the same. (revelation #2) And yet I'm putting the mic right up there by the speaker. So I made some adjustments to my amp's sound so that the sound right up by the speaker was more like the sound I loved from 6 feet away.

Then I played a tracked a couple riffs. Listened to the recording. Moved the mic a half inch to the left. A half inch closer. Tracked again. And so on. After a while, I found a great sound.

My point is this--an SM57 should definitely do better than your cheap condensers. But your AT should as well--after creating the right sound and finding the sweet spot. You might just already have what you need...

 

[darrin_h2000]

I normally will pick an SM57 over a cheap condencer...its best advice I can give is to bypass the cheap condencers alltogether and use the SM57s untill you can purchase an AT40 series...or a shure KSM series...I wish I could have back the cash I wasted on noisy subpar chinese mics.

That SM57 will come in handy allways...I started buying them up when I saw a deal on one used and I have eleven of them now...I havent spent more than $20 on any one of them.

You stick with the the good used mics from the AKG...AT...and Shure lines and not the cheap ones you will allways get your money back on the used market...they are a good investment.

 

[Alexrkstr]

.

My point is this--an SM57 should definitely do better than your cheap condensers. But your AT should as well--after creating the right sound and finding the sweet spot. You might just already have what you need...

Thanks so much, that is exactly what I was looking for. I guess I need to keep experimenting with mic placements with the AT mic. Your revelation #2 was right on too... makes perfect sense.

thanks!

 

[Alexrkstr]

That SM57 will come in handy allways...I started buying them up when I saw a deal on one used and I have eleven of them now...I havent spent more than $20 on any one of them.

Would you consider selling me one of those?

 

[darrin_h2000]

Well, the fact is that I can get $60 for any one of those...Craigslist is great for that...buy low...sell high...Ive made several thousand this year buying and selling gear.

Right now the AT3035 condencers seem to be a great deal...and they are great tools...Ive won 2 of them for $50 each on EBAY...and they stopped making them...so they will go up in value Im predicting...and in the meantime they are the best deal on condencers.

 

[mixsit]

So based on what you've now said, I assume you're recording heavy or distorted guitars as opposed to clean guitars? It does matter, because while I'd prefer an SM57 over a condenser for both--I could get a condenser to work for clean--but not for dirty guitars.

Most folks (me included) find a condenser to be too bright and harsh for distorted guitars. One will often be used as a second mic to round out a sound, but a dynamic (like a 57) is most often preferred.

The most important thing about recording an amp (after the amps sound of course) is mic placement. When I first started, I put it up where I thought it "looked" logical and it sounded like crap. So I started reading and reading, and found that a very small movement can make a big difference (revelation #1)

So I put my ear close to the speaker while playing (at a lower volume) to listen for the "sweet spot"--and guess what--it all sounded like crap. I loved the sound of my amp, but that was standing 6 feet away. Right up by the speaker it didn't sound nearly the same. (revelation #2) And yet I'm putting the mic right up there by the speaker. So I made some adjustments to my amp's sound so that the sound right up by the speaker was more like the sound I loved from 6 feet away.

Then I played a tracked a couple riffs. Listened to the recording. Moved the mic a half inch to the left. A half inch closer. Tracked again. And so on. After a while, I found a great sound.

My point is this--an SM57 should definitely do better than your cheap condensers. But your AT should as well--after creating the right sound and finding the sweet spot. You might just already have what you need...

Where would one vote to get this stickied' up at the top of the mic forum.. Maybe a 'read this' section.

 

[Alexrkstr]

Where would one vote to get this stickied' up at the top of the mic forum.. Maybe a 'read this' section.

COMPLETELY agree with you, in 5 years of home recording and forums I have not read such a succinct summary of mic'ing.

 

[Richard Monroe]

There are really 2 questions that have been asked. First, would you use a cheap dynamic or a cheap condenser to mic an amp? Secondly, what cheap dynamic or cheap condenser would you use? My answers (which lots of folks disagree with)- First, I would use a cheap dynamic for that crunch, and a cheap condenser for the "articulated rhythm". I would probably set up both mics and use one or the other, or a blend of the 2, in the final mix. I would also put a dedicated low frequency mic, such as AKG D112 or Audix D6, behind the cab if it is an open back cab (and reverse the phase).

Second question- an SM57 is a perfectly good cheap dynamic, but there is really nothing special or magical about it. You could use your AT, or AKG D770, or Sennheiser e835, or for wicked cheap, Behringer XM8500, or a host of other dynamic mics- My favorite is Sennheiser MD421, but it's *not* a cheap dynamic.

In short, MXL990 is one of the last mics on Earth I would put in front of a cab. An MXL V67G or AKG C2000B works rather well. As you say, the 990 is "bright". I would call it "hyped". When it comes down to it, I think the 990 is a very good paperweight or "marital aide", and there are other cheap condensers that suck a lot less- Studio Projects B-1 and MXL V67G, for example.-Richie

 

[Shadow_7]

I like condensors for their detail and honesty. I like dynamics for their rugged lack of detail and sensitivity. Each has their place. And you can EQ out some of the less desireable traits, or EQ in those that you want to exploit. It really depends on your skill and how much time you want to invest in a given project.

There's no written rule that says that you can't use every mic you own a single source. Mix/blend the ones you like, ignore the ones you don't. You don't have to get a new mic to achieve a new sound. But if your current mics are missing something (high end sizzle for cymbals / female voices / and such), that's when you need to gain new abilities with a new purchase.

My STO-2's are nice and handle high SPLs well. But they lack a little low end. Adding EQ on that side of the spectrum makes any percussion sounds out of whack with the low end I was wanting to boost. So I'm only EQing about 1/5th the amount that I want to. Basically I need different mics. But I know why, and how the new mics should differ from my old ones. Information that you failed to supply to help us help you. Or we could play the who's your favorite artists and what gear do they use game.

 

[darrin_h2000]

Information that you failed to supply to help us help you. Or we could play the who's your favorite artists and what gear do they use game.

why not...you go in for a hair cut, unless you bring in a picture there is a small chance of really getting what you want...If you know the Mic/preamp combination that was used on the record that has that sound you want...that is half the battle.

 

[Alexrkstr]

why not...you go in for a hair cut, unless you bring in a picture there is a small chance of really getting what you want...If you know the Mic/preamp combination that was used on the record that has that sound you want...that is half the battle.

Thanks guys, all good points. Style or artist-wise I am after:
- U2 guitar crunch
- Collective Soul saturated guitars
- Maroon 5 funk rhythms

I have:
- Vox AC4TV
- AT Vocal mic
- MXL 990/991
- Fender Strat
- Gibson Les Paul
- PODxt