Better mic then sm57?

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o0Charlie0o

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I'm recording from a high-volume mesa triple rectifier 4x12 cab, and i really don't think the sm57 is getting all that i would want it to get for recording...

Whats a better mic that might cut out some lows and boost the highs a little more or something, or at least capture a better sound then the 57?

Price doesn't matter to much (don't go crazy)

I've been hearing good things about the c-3 from studio concepts, but would that be safe to close mic the mesa? I actually don't record at a really high volume so maybe?

Charlie
 
Try the 57 Mesa combination again, except:

1. Put the Mesa 4x12 cabinet on a chair, up off the floor.

2. Mic either the top left or top right speaker.

3. Lemme know if that sounds better to you.
 
Well what i have right now sounds fine, but i think i could be capturing more of that mesa sound if you know what i mean... Also lifting that mesa is not an easy thing to do...

One other thing, its a slant cab so mic'ing the top ones are a little hard, so i always mic the bottoms.

It is on wheels...
 


After the intro which is 20 sec is when the song comes in pretty strong. I like the sound, but on other songs i think it sounds a little muddy.
 
This song gives you a better sample of what the recording through the 57 sounds like since the guitars are in the beginning, and come in strong without drums first...

 
Alright.

Stick a large diaphragm condenser . . . an AT 4033 at the side of the speaker grill (even though it's not a large-diaphragm but let's not be picky).

Now stick an sm57 directly at the cone, middle of the speaker, head-on.

Mix the two to taste. The AT will pick up the bass (and mids, as the AT is known to do) . . . and the 57 will pick up the highs and high mids (mostly around 2 khz).

Blend the two together untill you like what you're hearing.
 
Heh, well the thing is... that recording is with the sm57 directly on the cone in the center...

The settings on my amp sound so sweet live, but i guess they don't do the trick recording...
 
My ideal combination for recording guitar amps (and getting the original tone) is and RE-20 and a DPA 4011. This is probably a bit more than you want to spend, but you should try combining mics. It can help. It can also hurt, of course, so use your ears, but then, I don't think you would be asking this question if you weren't using your ears.

Light
"Cowards can never be moral."M.K. Gandhi
 
Heh, yeah that would be a little to much...


Currently i have a sm57, and sm58, 2 oktava mk-12's (i think... they are used for overhead on my drums) a shure beta 52 for the kick drum, and a groove tubes gt-55 (which i used to use for the right channel of the guitar recording by putting it in the middle of the room, but i didn't like the room noise)

I guess i'll be doing a lot of mixing mics tomorrow to see if i like something else...
 
I've had great luck with two 57s. Put the two together at a 45 degree angle so the diaphragms are almost touching. Point one at the center of the cone and the other at the side of the speaker and mix them to taste.
 
o0Charlie0o said:
Well what i have right now sounds fine, but i think i could be capturing more of that mesa sound if you know what i mean... Also lifting that mesa is not an easy thing to do...

One other thing, its a slant cab so mic'ing the top ones are a little hard, so i always mic the bottoms.

It is on wheels...
Click to expand...
Perhaps I'm missing something here. I think you originally said, "Whats a better mic that might cut out some lows and boost the highs a little more or something, or at least capture a better sound then the 57?", and I responded with some suggestions that might get you the results you want.

I said put it on a chair, and you said that's not easy. I said mic the top speakers, and you replied that you always mic the bottom speakers.

I guess you really have your heart set on getting a new mic that you hope will solve the problem, rather than listening to advice as to how to fix the problem using the equipment you already have.

There are very few mics that will do a better job of capturing a Mesa amp than a Shure SM-57. Most of the mics that people will recomend will add even MORE bottom end to the sound, compared to a 57.

Mic placement is usually more important than mic choice, at least that's what I've found in my limited experience of recording guitar amplifiers. :)
 
Ok sorry...

Well I came across something last night that might help me...

I've known about the proximity effect on the 57, but never knew what would do what, and apparently if I move the mic further away from the sound source, it would capture more highs then lows?

I really can't lift the mesa onto a chair in the position that i'm in. Also i have miked the top speakers and it really did not change anything other then maybe adding more lows...

So i guess i kinda just chucked your post out the windows... Sorry about that...
 
At the very least Charlie, mic the top speaker. What Harvey is trying to tell you is the floor is coupling with the cabinet to form a low frequency horn. Lifting it off the floor would de-couple it. At least mic'ing the top would slow it down.
 
o0Charlie0o said:
Ok sorry...

Well I came across something last night that might help me...

I've known about the proximity effect on the 57, but never knew what would do what, and apparently if I move the mic further away from the sound source, it would capture more highs then lows?

No, proximity effect is caused by moving a velocity mic (pressure gradient) in very close to the sound source, which increases the apparent bass. Moving the mic back will not boost the bass due to proximity effect, which sounds like an increase in the highs.

I really can't lift the mesa onto a chair in the position that i'm in. Also i have miked the top speakers and it really did not change anything other then maybe adding more lows...

When you are at an intersection of two right angle surfaces (like the floor and your cabinet), you get a bass boost of 6 dB. Moving the cabinet off the floor (onto a chair) will reduce that effect. Miking the top speakers will also reduce the bass boost you get, so I don't understand your remark about the top speakers "adding more lows", unless the top speakers are different from the bottom speakers. The speakers closest to the floor will always have more bass, due to better coupling.

So i guess i kinda just chucked your post out the windows... Sorry about that...
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No problem, it's just that your response surprised me. I'll sometimes spend hours working on getting the perfect mic position for a particular sound. I feel that when a group is paying a lot of money for the best possible recording, they deserve the best I can do. Both things I suggested should give you better results than what you're currently doing, but they're only my suggestions.
 
No, proximity effect is caused by moving a velocity mic (pressure gradient) in very close to the sound source, which increases the apparent bass. Mocing the mic back will notboost the bass due to proximity effect, which sounds like an increase in the highs.

So wouldn't i want to move the mic back then so it would not boost the bass???
 
o0Charlie0o said:
No, proximity effect is caused by moving a velocity mic (pressure gradient) in very close to the sound source, which increases the apparent bass. Moving the mic back will not boost the bass due to proximity effect, which sounds like an increase in the highs.

So wouldn't i want to move the mic back then so it would not boost the bass???
Click to expand...
Yes, but it's important to understand that you're NOT capturing more highs, you're simply avoiding the bass boost caused by the proximity effect. It's an important difference to understand.
 
I understand completely.... just said it wrong the first time around.
 
Okay, I gotta know. Why can't you get the cabinet up off the floor? Could no one help you?

Here's a tip: Your settings for live performance will not necessarily translate to pleasing recorded sounds. In guitar amps, Mesa is a prime example of an amp I love for live, but hate to record.
-kent
 
Eh, just the fact that yeah it's heavy... no one is around, and with the head on top it's just heavier and i'd rather not go and take it all down. I actually think i just found a nice noise though taking into consideration the proximity effect :)
 
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