Best way to record metal guitar direct....

[Zed10R]

Once again I'm tossing a question out there to all you peeps in Homerecording land.

I am undecided about getting a Line 6 POD Pro XT, a little POD 2.0, or a Tech21 sansamp something....I can't remember the model. It's the no longer made rack mount unit. I would consider getting a guitar amp head that support direct recording if anyone has any suggestions. The goals are a punishing rip your head off tone, flexability, and overall quality of sound.

Just to save time and nip this in the bud - I WILL be recording guitars mic'd as well as direct, so no one needs to say that recording a mic'd cab is better...

Thanks.....

 

[cellardweller]

Sansamp PSA-1?
If I remember correctly, I think they are "temporarily" out of production.

Haven't heard any of the units you've mentioned, but Peter Tagtgren (Hypocrisy) uses a PSA-1...

 

[jonnyc]

I just use a di box and record clean then use my sans amp plug in to dirty them up. You can actually get a really good tone out of that it just takes a lot of tweaking. I usually only do this for backing guitars when I need a different tone than my amp offers. I've also had some success with amplitube I espeicially like their presets.

 

[Zed10R]

Sansamp PSA-1?
If I remember correctly, I think they are "temporarily" out of production.

Haven't heard any of the units you've mentioned, but Peter Tagtgren (Hypocrisy) uses a PSA-1...

THAT'S IT!! Thanks!! I'll check out some Hypocrisy.....I've heard 'em before, but it's been a while.....

I just use a di box and record clean then use my sans amp plug in to dirty them up. You can actually get a really good tone out of that it just takes a lot of tweaking. I usually only do this for backing guitars when I need a different tone than my amp offers. I've also had some success with amplitube I espeicially like their presets.

That's somthing I've been thinking about to get differnt tones.....I'm glad you've had success. For now, I use a Hughes and Ketter pre that supports direct recording. It sounds pretty darn good (but not FUKIN AWESOME!!!) and it's EASY to use.

Anyone use a Peavey XXX head (or any other) with a dummy load and the direct outs? I'm curious how that sounds......

 

[chessrock]

Just to save time and nip this in the bud - I WILL be recording guitars mic'd as well as direct, so no one needs to say that recording a mic'd cab is better...

Recording a mic'ed cab is better. Oops, I wasn't supposed to say that.

I would consider getting a guitar amp head that support direct recording if anyone has any suggestions.

This would probably be the least sucky way of recording direct. What I would do is get a power soak ... something like a THD Hot Plate. And run that through a Palmer Speaker Simulator. Some of the Palmers actually have a power soak built in, so you might not need one. This would allow you to record direct with any amp, basically, and not have it suck too bad.

The goals are a punishing rip your head off tone, flexability, and overall quality of sound.

I wouldn't get too far ahead of myself, here. Direct guitar recording and amp similation are not synonymous with "rip your head off tone" or "quality of sound." If it's your only option, then you're pretty much stuck in damage control mode. Again, your best bet is to focus on the "least sucky" option you can find, as much of what you have available will be mostly varying degrees of suck.

 

[Zed10R]

I wouldn't get too far ahead of myself, here. Direct guitar recording and amp similation are not synonymous with "rip your head off tone" or "quality of sound." If it's your only option, then you're pretty much stuck in damage control mode. Again, your best bet is to focus on the "least sucky" option you can find, as much of what you have available will be mostly varying degrees of suck.

Just so I have an accurate perspective - I will not argue about it or say "you suck!" I swear.....

Who's guitar tone do YOU think rips heads off, has great quality of sound and is beyond the capabilities of direct recording?

 

[cellardweller]

Who's guitar tone do YOU think rips heads off...

Must the head be cleanly severed, or might it be "like a giant PEZZ dispenser"?

What about hanging by a bit of flesh/tendon/gristle?


Did you get a chance to scope any Hypocrisy? If I had to pick one, I'm partial to the CD "Abducted".

 

[metalhead28]

Anyone use a Peavey XXX head (or any other) with a dummy load and the direct outs? I'm curious how that sounds......

I've tried the direct out on every amp I own (including a 5150 II, but not a XXX) and they all sounded dreadful to my ears.

 

[Zed10R]

Must the head be cleanly severed, or might it be "like a giant PEZZ dispenser"?

What about hanging by a bit of flesh/tendon/gristle?


Did you get a chance to scope any Hypocrisy? If I had to pick one, I'm partial to the CD "Abducted".

I mean CLEAN OFF...actually, no. Not clean. I mean.....violently blown off with shreads of bone flesh flying around in the red, wet mist of twisted gore..... yeah......

I'm going to my favorite cd store this weekend to find some Hypocrisy. "Abducted, you say?? Cool....I'll look for that one.....

 

[Zed10R]

I've tried the direct out on every amp I own (including a 5150 II, but not a XXX) and they all sounded dreadful to my ears.

Bummer....but thanks....

 

[chessrock]

Who's guitar tone do YOU think rips heads off, has great quality of sound and is beyond the capabilities of direct recording?

Oh, I dunno. Rage against the Machine, perhaps? Tool? White Zombie?

 

[Zed10R]

Oh, I dunno. Rage against the Machine, perhaps? Tool?

AAAhhhh....I got where you are coming from....yeah. I agree. Tool and Rage both have very good tones going on, and they are most definitely of the mic'd cab flavor. Yeah...I don't think it is possible to get a good Tool tone going direct.....good point....

So, would it be safe to say that Fear Factory's guitar tone is garbage.....yes?

 

[chessrock]

So, would it be safe to say that Fear Factory's guitar tone is garbage.....yes?

That basic kind of sound can certainly be emulated/imitated going direct. And it's likely that while you're tracking it, you'll say to yourself "Man, this kicks some serious ass. My head's being ripped off like right now. Woo hoo, watch me go!" and all that.

But it's also likely that you'll listen to those tracks at some point in the future ... maybe five years down the road and say "What the f#$k was I thinking? This sounds really thin and fake. I sure am glad I'm over the whole recording direct thing." Or perhaps you'll listen to it on a different system and it just won't translate nearly as well as you would have liked.

Or it could be just fine. No one has all the answers. Just keep in mind that, particularly with the heavy, heavy distortion, it's very difficult to emulate with a series of computer algorythms, no matter how advanced, so you run the danger of dating your recordings big-time. The speaker is a big part of the sound.

 

[jonnyc]

I saw and heard something crazy at a friends studio tonight. He was recording a metal band they were kinda younger and didn't have a decent amp to record thru. And my buddy only has a roland jazz chorus and he doesn't use it much. He told the kid they'd just record direct with the sans amp plug. He then handed the kid his ovation acoustic electric. It was the most realistic direct in I've ever heard. I even told him he may have something there. I was supposed to keep it a secret but I figure someone else must do it. Me and this guy are very honest with each other about flaws in our recordings, we help each other out, and there's been times I've told him I didn't like his direct guitars(what he mostly does). But this time it could've fooled me.

 

[chessrock]

Jonny, I hate to break this to you, but what you heard was an abberation. A mind trick. At some point in time, you're going to have to come to this realization and be honest with yourself. Listen to it again. It sounded like ass. All direct guitars do.

I don't know how else to put this to you guys, but there are a lot of things that might shock you. For example:

* There is no Santa Clause. Or Easter Bunny. Tooth Fairy, too.

* If you are an average American, there's a 50% chance that your Mom cheated on your Dad at some point in their marriage.

* There's a 25% chance that you are, at this time, clinically obese.

* And direct guitars just sound like ass. All of them.

These are just the facts. Raw statistical data. Live with it. Deal with it, and be happy. There are certainly worse things that could happen in life.

 

[Ronan]

I gotta say that I actually agree with Chessrock on the direct guitar issue, but if you are in a situation where you really want to go direct, stear clear of all the digital emulator stuff and take a look at the Sansamp as you mentioned but also keep an eye on the used marker for one of the original Mesa Boogie studio pre amps which you can find for less than $350 very often.

 

[WERNER 1]

Yeah, those Boogie Studio Pre's were nice!! I got rid of mine a long time ago though..

I've been using a Carvin Quad X all Tube 4 channel Preamp since 94', and the diriect out is really quite nice.....it also has a built in speaker emulator. With 9 preamp tubes in it, there's enough gain in there for anybody!!!

Rick

 

[Dogman]

I mean CLEAN OFF...actually, no. Not clean. I mean.....violently blown off with shreads of bone flesh flying around in the red, wet mist of twisted gore..... yeah......

I'm going to my favorite cd store this weekend to find some Hypocrisy. "Abducted, you say?? Cool....I'll look for that one.....

Are you talking like Scanners exploding shit...???? That's cool. Anyway, my wife bought me a POD XT so I could play quietly at times, and it works for what it is. It's not a mic'd cabinette, but when you have to be quiet.....and it works well as an effects pedal when I do use the amp. You can definitely tell it is direct when you use it that way, but sounds better than when I use the direct out on my amp.

Just adding to this, cuz I wanted to see some exploding heads and stuff....

 

[Samantha C.]

I've also had no good experiences recording direct... especially dirt guitar...

Perhaps have a listen to Slipperman's attempt at recording direct , illustrating how it's nearly impossible to get any usable tone - mostly because of the lack of having a lossy system (which all mic'ed cabbies > to pre > compressor > etc. etc. have).

Here's a link: (right click > save target as)

 

[Zed10R]

.......Or it could be just fine. No one has all the answers. Just keep in mind that, particularly with the heavy, heavy distortion, it's very difficult to emulate with a series of computer algorythms, no matter how advanced, so you run the danger of dating your recordings big-time. The speaker is a big part of the sound.

Which is exactly why there are be both direct and mic'd cab tracks in all my songs. A bit of both IMO is best. And as my sound evolves (as all bans do..or should I would guess) I'll have that much more room to change without anything being drastic. At least that how I see it.