Best way to get Cakewalks attention?
- Thread starter Jim Y
- Start date
Pedullist
Stop it, I can't breathe
Easy, mail support@cakewalk.com and wait... 
James Argo
Fancy Rock N' Roll
...It's not new issue. They kinda "deff". BTW, what's your "issues" ?
BluesMeister
Occasional Poster
and wait and wait and...Pedullist said:Easy, mail support@cakewalk.com and wait...
--
BluesMeister
OK - here's the body of what I just e-mailed to tech support.
I've mentioned most of it here before. I think it's pretty fundamental stuff but I suspect it depends on how you use Sonar.
Basic Functions.
1: No preview of metronome tempo. Sonar will not play (and therefore allow musicians to practice to the metronome prior to the first take) unless audio or midi data already exist in the project. It should be possible to audition the metronome without playing or recording a project. The workaround of making a template containing a dummy midi track ought not to be necessary.
2: No usable metronome if you do not possess a hardware midi synth. The PC speaker is not an acceptable substitute. Many "pro" soundcards do not provide a wavetable midi synth anymore. An embedded Dxi should be provided to provide a choice of metronome tones for those who lack midi hardware.
3: Audio track level indicators - clip indicator does not function unless in play or record. It is only possible to see if an input is clipping whilst actually recording - when it's too late!
4: Insert Time function - Goes bananas unless all tracks contain single continous clips. If the tracks contain seperate clips, the Insert time function sends them flying off in all directions
Midi Functions.
1: Sonar will not share midi drivers with other applications. Most Midi devices are provided with a PC editor utility. Often, it is the only way to access all of the midi devices features. Despite including these utilities in the Tools menu, Sonar does not allow you to use them if the midi hardware is on a midi port used by Sonar. The only alternative is to use a Studioware panel. Studioware is a very clever and powerful system but...
A: Not all hardware has a Studioware panel provided.
B: Some of the Panels only work if the device is on Track 1.
C: Not everyone has the time or ability to build their own panel.
D: The Studioware documentation is poor anyway.
E: OK - those panels are just UGLY!
Go on... Just let Sonar share Midi drivers.
2: Midi port - Name or Number? Once you have assigned instruments to your Midi ports, the track view uses the ports instrument name. However, when you open Project options (for example), the Port is only referred to by number. It takes a little head scratching to work out what this number is!
3: Midi Port settings saved in a project can be altered when you reopen it. I have 2 devices on the second midi port of my PC. Channel one is a Johnson J-station, Channel 10 is an Alesis SR-16 drum machine. If I want to slave sync the SR-16 to Sonar, I set its port number in Project Options/ Midi out (port 3 as it happens). However, when I re-open the project later the sync no longer works. The reason is that upon opening, Sonar is checking the Midi port numbers used in the project. As there are only 2 physical ports it resets my sync output to port 2. I have to change it back to 3 to get sync working again.
With Windows XP...
I have discovered that XP is logging warning errors when Sonar opens and closes. This is because Sonar is changing the Disk drives cache settings. I have write caching disabled anyway in hardware properties. Is there any way to stop Sonar making these changes? I always understood it was bad practice for an application to make low-level system changes, particularly in a protected O/S like XP.
Nice things to have...
Wouldn't it be nice if a Midi or audio loop actually could loop?
Lets have a clip property that says "loop until new". That is, Sonar loops the clip until it hits another one in the track lane (or you hit stop). It would make improvising a composition so much easier since you wont have to think about how long a part plays for - you can decide that later.
Lets give audio drivers friendly names - "M-audio Audiophile Multichannel 1&2" doesn't fit in the track properties pane!
Off topic - Cakewalk HomeStudio. I know a lot of people with hardware recorders (eg Roland VS series) who only require pc midi sequencing. However, entry level sequencers like HS don't allow slave sync to midi clock, forcing them to look to high end products like Sonar, Cubase SL etc. But, they don't want or require the Audio features of Sonar - they just want a midi sequencer that will sync to their recorders, probably running on a low end laptop PC. So please consider adding external midi clock to HS, or even a midi only product that would be suitable - there is a market.
I've mentioned most of it here before. I think it's pretty fundamental stuff but I suspect it depends on how you use Sonar.
Basic Functions.
1: No preview of metronome tempo. Sonar will not play (and therefore allow musicians to practice to the metronome prior to the first take) unless audio or midi data already exist in the project. It should be possible to audition the metronome without playing or recording a project. The workaround of making a template containing a dummy midi track ought not to be necessary.
2: No usable metronome if you do not possess a hardware midi synth. The PC speaker is not an acceptable substitute. Many "pro" soundcards do not provide a wavetable midi synth anymore. An embedded Dxi should be provided to provide a choice of metronome tones for those who lack midi hardware.
3: Audio track level indicators - clip indicator does not function unless in play or record. It is only possible to see if an input is clipping whilst actually recording - when it's too late!
4: Insert Time function - Goes bananas unless all tracks contain single continous clips. If the tracks contain seperate clips, the Insert time function sends them flying off in all directions
Midi Functions.
1: Sonar will not share midi drivers with other applications. Most Midi devices are provided with a PC editor utility. Often, it is the only way to access all of the midi devices features. Despite including these utilities in the Tools menu, Sonar does not allow you to use them if the midi hardware is on a midi port used by Sonar. The only alternative is to use a Studioware panel. Studioware is a very clever and powerful system but...
A: Not all hardware has a Studioware panel provided.
B: Some of the Panels only work if the device is on Track 1.
C: Not everyone has the time or ability to build their own panel.
D: The Studioware documentation is poor anyway.
E: OK - those panels are just UGLY!
Go on... Just let Sonar share Midi drivers.
2: Midi port - Name or Number? Once you have assigned instruments to your Midi ports, the track view uses the ports instrument name. However, when you open Project options (for example), the Port is only referred to by number. It takes a little head scratching to work out what this number is!
3: Midi Port settings saved in a project can be altered when you reopen it. I have 2 devices on the second midi port of my PC. Channel one is a Johnson J-station, Channel 10 is an Alesis SR-16 drum machine. If I want to slave sync the SR-16 to Sonar, I set its port number in Project Options/ Midi out (port 3 as it happens). However, when I re-open the project later the sync no longer works. The reason is that upon opening, Sonar is checking the Midi port numbers used in the project. As there are only 2 physical ports it resets my sync output to port 2. I have to change it back to 3 to get sync working again.
With Windows XP...
I have discovered that XP is logging warning errors when Sonar opens and closes. This is because Sonar is changing the Disk drives cache settings. I have write caching disabled anyway in hardware properties. Is there any way to stop Sonar making these changes? I always understood it was bad practice for an application to make low-level system changes, particularly in a protected O/S like XP.
Nice things to have...
Wouldn't it be nice if a Midi or audio loop actually could loop?
Lets have a clip property that says "loop until new". That is, Sonar loops the clip until it hits another one in the track lane (or you hit stop). It would make improvising a composition so much easier since you wont have to think about how long a part plays for - you can decide that later.
Lets give audio drivers friendly names - "M-audio Audiophile Multichannel 1&2" doesn't fit in the track properties pane!
Off topic - Cakewalk HomeStudio. I know a lot of people with hardware recorders (eg Roland VS series) who only require pc midi sequencing. However, entry level sequencers like HS don't allow slave sync to midi clock, forcing them to look to high end products like Sonar, Cubase SL etc. But, they don't want or require the Audio features of Sonar - they just want a midi sequencer that will sync to their recorders, probably running on a low end laptop PC. So please consider adding external midi clock to HS, or even a midi only product that would be suitable - there is a market.
James Argo
Fancy Rock N' Roll
Nope. Hit the Arm, hit Audio Engine. Monitor the input without playback / recording.
James Argo
Fancy Rock N' Roll
James Argo
Fancy Rock N' Roll
...Does the name Space Shuttle 3 have any meaning for you ?
Kiddin' ya...
No offend, and you won't get it.
Sorry, the "Share drivers" option only affects Audio - Not MIDI. Cakewalk have confirmed this with me in the past.
I'm pretty sure my Audio Engine is running when I'm checking audio input level - the VU meter does work - but the clip indicator does not unless the transport is running.
Of course, it may be different in Sonar2.x - can anyone confirm this?
Space Shuttle 3 ? Err... No, I don't get it. I know the Shuttle has 3 mission computers that have to be in complete agreement, but I still don't get it.
Jim
I'm pretty sure my Audio Engine is running when I'm checking audio input level - the VU meter does work - but the clip indicator does not unless the transport is running.
Of course, it may be different in Sonar2.x - can anyone confirm this?
Space Shuttle 3 ? Err... No, I don't get it. I know the Shuttle has 3 mission computers that have to be in complete agreement, but I still don't get it.
Jim
James Argo
Fancy Rock N' Roll
..eeeerrrr... My mistake
You're right. ..eeeerrrr... My mistake
You're right. No. Same thing I guess...
Cut it off... I was kiddin'
moskus
The Creator of Æ, Ø and Å
I don't see the problem with this... If you have this problem, then turn the track down. "They" say it's best to track between -12dB and -6dB. Clipping is way above that...Jim Y said:
And MIDI-drivers will not be shared between any two programs at all, so there's nothing you can do about that (unless you want to talk to Microsoft, that is)..
I do not have this problem.
Talk to the audiocard manufactorer...
I can't find these error-messages. Where do I look?
I'll give you this. But a closer look in the manual explains this. But you have a good point, but I myself don't find it all that annoying...
Or, Jim, you could just swicth to Cubase and discover it's faults...
I'm pretty sure Midi drivers can be shared. The WDM spec allows for multi client design. A midi device editor is of little use if you can't access it in the context of an arrangement. I did try Hubis and MidiYoke but failed to get either to work under XP.
I've already invested in Sonar - both Time and Money. You can't keep jumping ship. (OK, I have CEP for wav editing but CEP2 looks promising for Audio only projects).
The clip indicator does bother me. There can be fast transients that won't be seen on the main level "leds" so having to do a take to see if it really is hitting clip is just plain silly.
XP Event logging viewer can be found under Admin tools. I discovered this while tracking down mysterious crashes if I closed or saved Sonar from a new arrangement that had not previously been saved - never happens with existing projects. I'm convinced it has something to do with bad caching of temporary data. Trick is to Save-as the moment a new project is started before recording anything.
Have a look at Cool Edit Pro 2 - it names the device indirectly in the track view, so the Soundcard driver name does not have to be used in the application except in the selection dialogs.
BTW - Just installed CEP2 - The Metronome works as I suggested Sonars should, better - you can select it's accent as well as the sound.
Cheers
Jim
I've already invested in Sonar - both Time and Money. You can't keep jumping ship. (OK, I have CEP for wav editing but CEP2 looks promising for Audio only projects).
The clip indicator does bother me. There can be fast transients that won't be seen on the main level "leds" so having to do a take to see if it really is hitting clip is just plain silly.
XP Event logging viewer can be found under Admin tools. I discovered this while tracking down mysterious crashes if I closed or saved Sonar from a new arrangement that had not previously been saved - never happens with existing projects. I'm convinced it has something to do with bad caching of temporary data. Trick is to Save-as the moment a new project is started before recording anything.
Have a look at Cool Edit Pro 2 - it names the device indirectly in the track view, so the Soundcard driver name does not have to be used in the application except in the selection dialogs.
BTW - Just installed CEP2 - The Metronome works as I suggested Sonars should, better - you can select it's accent as well as the sound.
Cheers
Jim
James Argo
Fancy Rock N' Roll
Sorry to interupt, but have you visited www.musicxp.net ? Tune your WinXP for audio/music applications...
moskus
The Creator of Æ, Ø and Å
Nope, they can't. Ok... they can. But it has nothing to do with Cakewalk. Read this.Jim Y said:
I'll check this out...
First I got a reply from tech support. Basically, it said "can't help -that's how it works. I'll pass it on to product development."
Which is what I expected.
I'm surprised by the abrasive nature of a few of the replies to my comments here. I'm not out to destroy Sonar. It's the horse I have backed and I want to see it win. It won't do that if we ignore its defects and pretend everything is fine. The metronome issues alone prevent me from giving Sonar an unqualified recommendation to those currently using hardware multitracks.
Back to midi driver sharing. I just tested Cool Edit Pro 2. Not a true midi sequencer, but it can be made to use midi ports for midi file playback and remote control etc. With the same midi ports in use by CEP2, I opened Johnson J-edit and both apps worked fine.
Moskus. Thanks for the link- I never heard of that Cakewalk multiclient thingy- but it applied only to win9x and mme drivers (I read somewhere that seperate MPU401 driver types are not allowed in WDM). XP and WDM are more advanced. Driver sharing is a standard feature. It is Sonars design that is deliberately preventing sharing. With device sharing enabled, Sonar is quite willing to allow a wav editor to use the same audio driver but notice that the editor app doesn't have to be told to share? That's because sharing is default behaviour. Sonar is the odd one out. I can only suspect it refuses to share midi in order to protect against timing problems that might happen if another program had a lot of midi activity while Sonar is running.
About the cache thing - it really is no biggy. But I also had the same prob under win2k but never under win98SE. Incidentally, If you disable Write caching in the drives hardware properties - as recommended in several XP optimisation articles - this also causes warning logs "The driver has disabled write caching on device...". Does it again when Sonar opens and closes but this time "Sonar.exe has....". They are only warnings - not errors but I wonder why? And yes, I am familiar with optimisation techniques - sometimes wonder if I've optimised too much. At least if it does crash - any recordings are still in the audio folder thanks to caching being disabled.
James - I have let it go. But it hurt.
Cheers
Which is what I expected.
I'm surprised by the abrasive nature of a few of the replies to my comments here. I'm not out to destroy Sonar. It's the horse I have backed and I want to see it win. It won't do that if we ignore its defects and pretend everything is fine. The metronome issues alone prevent me from giving Sonar an unqualified recommendation to those currently using hardware multitracks.
Back to midi driver sharing. I just tested Cool Edit Pro 2. Not a true midi sequencer, but it can be made to use midi ports for midi file playback and remote control etc. With the same midi ports in use by CEP2, I opened Johnson J-edit and both apps worked fine.
Moskus. Thanks for the link- I never heard of that Cakewalk multiclient thingy- but it applied only to win9x and mme drivers (I read somewhere that seperate MPU401 driver types are not allowed in WDM). XP and WDM are more advanced. Driver sharing is a standard feature. It is Sonars design that is deliberately preventing sharing. With device sharing enabled, Sonar is quite willing to allow a wav editor to use the same audio driver but notice that the editor app doesn't have to be told to share? That's because sharing is default behaviour. Sonar is the odd one out. I can only suspect it refuses to share midi in order to protect against timing problems that might happen if another program had a lot of midi activity while Sonar is running.
About the cache thing - it really is no biggy. But I also had the same prob under win2k but never under win98SE. Incidentally, If you disable Write caching in the drives hardware properties - as recommended in several XP optimisation articles - this also causes warning logs "The driver has disabled write caching on device...". Does it again when Sonar opens and closes but this time "Sonar.exe has....". They are only warnings - not errors but I wonder why? And yes, I am familiar with optimisation techniques - sometimes wonder if I've optimised too much
. At least if it does crash - any recordings are still in the audio folder thanks to caching being disabled.James - I have let it go. But it hurt.
Cheers
I'm not sure about the midi driver sharing issue, because it has not seemed an issue on my setup.
While I have Sonar 2.2 project loaded up, I can launch my Roland XV5050 editor, and do whatever I want.
If the midi drivers can't be shared, then how am I getting away with that?
While I have Sonar 2.2 project loaded up, I can launch my Roland XV5050 editor, and do whatever I want.
If the midi drivers can't be shared, then how am I getting away with that?