Best speaker brand???

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jharris

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I'm upgrading our church sound system and have received conflicting advice. I was originally considering the Wharfedale EVPX and LX series, but have heard that we would be dissapointed in the performance. I have priced some JBL jrx series speakers/subs which are more expensive, but I've heard they're better. Others have suggested EAW or Mackie, although the Mackies seem really expensive here. Can anyone tell me what brands will give the best performance value and what brands to avoid? :confused:
 
You almost can't go wrong with much of EAW, EV... Some of the JBL stuff isn't too bad.

If they're available, see if you can audition some of the new QSC boxes... I had a bit of a preview a while back and was QUITE impressed.
 
I have a pair of LX's (15in) and other than the horn being a little hot, they sound fine, especially for the money. I just roll of a little high end and they're fine. I have a pair of EV eliminators that sound good.
 
Kryptik said:
I have a pair of LX's (15in) and other than the horn being a little hot, they sound fine, especially for the money. I just roll of a little high end and they're fine. I have a pair of EV eliminators that sound good.

Have you compared your LX's to any JBL stuff? I can get a JBL jrx series setup for about the same as Wharfedale LX's
 
I've never done any direct comparisons. The LX's handled more power than the EV's, and that's why I got them. JBL is all over the place in my neck of the woods so I hear them all the time. I'm not their biggest fan, but they are popular. I like the EV stuff better than JBL. LX vs JRX is a tough call. I've always heard bad things about JBL's breaking down with heavy use though. I haven't put the Wharfes though a ton of punishment yet though, but there is a rental house in my area that uses them when they're hired to do live sound and they swear by them. They are real clear, but the highs are a bit much for my taste, and I usually bring them down between the mixer and the crossover.

If it's down to JBL vs LX it should be a matter of how much power you need. The LX's are a bit louder than anything else in it's price range. You DON'T want to just turn down the power amp to keep the volume down. Underpowering speakers is really where you really run into problems. Unless you're putting 800W-1000W into each side, I'd go with the JBLs and use a power amp that they recomend.

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Ok, I was half way through typing that when I went out for a smoke to mull this over a little more. Take the above for what it's worth.

Here is a side by side assessment of the JBLs and Wharfedales from my experience. I also included EV Eliminators for anybody else who is reading.

Ease of use:
The LX's are a little more unforgiving when it comes to technical problems of the band and if you want to hide them, you may need some outboard gear to compensate for that if the band isn't terribly good.

The JBLs will mask some of the problems a little more. That being said, they won't work miracles.

The EVs will hide mistakes a hair more than the JBLs. The thing the always drove me nuts with them though is their size. They are much deeper than most PA speakers in their range and can be a real pain to carry around.

Power:
The LX's have an 800W rms rating per side. They are also louder and obviously need a more powerfull amp. I set my stuff up for an outdoor party once, running two Crown CE4000 into a pair of LX's and a pair of dual 18s. The master fader's were never even up half way and the cops could still hear us a mile away. Unless you're church is either huge or has a lot of ambient noise, the LX's are overkill.

The JBL don't need so much power and seem to work fine for a lot of the small to mid-sized venues. Though they can't take alot of power either and trying to get too much out of them will most likely land them in the repair shop every couple of months.

The same can be said about the EV's, tough they can handle a little more power.

Sound:
The LX's are a bit on the bright side which can make them sound a little harsh at times. I find that just bringing down the highs tends to take care of that though. Out of all the speakers mentioned here, I find they sound by far the best for an entire mix. The vocals cut through well and everything else is real clear as well. They sound like good hi-fi speakers. But like I said before, they are unforgiving. If the source sounds like garbage, or the mics aren't placed very well, these speakers will let you know. Loud and Clear:).

JBLs aren't quite as clear as the LX's, but they do seem to work well in just about every venue that has them. I personally don't like the way they sound much. They are clear but always seem to have a sort of plastic sound, for a lack of a better way to describe them. It's one of those "either you like them or you don't" things, and many people do like them. I must say that vocals do sound good through them though, and the rest of the music seems to sound decent.

The EV's are sort of a counterpart to the JBLs. The entire band sounds really good, but the vocals can sometimes sound a little muddy and may have a little trouble cutting through a mix though. Overall they are a very warm and smooth sounding speaker, which I like a lot and I personally think these are the best sounding and probably the most forgiving speaker mentioned here.


Ok, now after having said all that, what's going through them? That sould probably be the deciding factor. If it's just vocals, you'd do better with the JBLs. If you're putting everybody direct through the fronthouse you'd probably do a little better with either the EV's or the LX's.
 
Ok, I just reread your original post. You mentioned EAW's which would blow away the LX's, JBL's, Eliminator's, etc... But they will cost you more than double what all the other speakers you've mentioned.

You mentioned subs. I like Yamaha subs. I'm genereally not a fan of anything else Yamaha, but I love my dual 18s. My drummer had a Peavey that wasn't terrible, well until he blew it.:). The Yamaha's 18s might save you a little money.

What specific models were you looking at?
 
We are running everything through the front of house but of course there's also alot of vocals going through it. Was also looking at the same brands (Wharfedale and JBL) in subwoofers. One salesman has suggested going to a higher quality speaker with double 15" woofers. In this case he was suggesting JBL M-pro 225s instead of JRX 115s with subs. The Mpro 225s have a 2" tweeter and double 15"s. In the technical specs this appears to give a lower range even than the JRX series subwoofers. Does that make any sense? Would a bass guitar and drums really sound better and just as "bassy" through the M-pro 225s (or similar) as compared to an 18" sub from the LX or JRX range? Thanks!
 
Basically what it boils down to is what you want the music to do. Nothing brings out a groove like 18" subwoofers. If you want something that people can really get up and move to, I'd go with the sub/top from the JRX or the LX. If you want something that people can just sit back and listen to I'd suggest the 225s.

The kick and the bass won't nessicarilly sound better with an 18" sub, but they will definitly have more impact. The only thing subs really do is move air, and unless you are really far away from them they are more felt than heard. That doesn't mean they don't play a role in music. They do, and that role is HUGE, and its what people really move to.

I like the Yamaha subs better than the any other I've heard. If you decide to go with the sub/top setup, I think they're at least worth a listen.
 
Kryptik said:
Basically what it boils down to is what you want the music to do. Nothing brings out a groove like 18" subwoofers. If you want something that people can really get up and move to, I'd go with the sub/top from the JRX or the LX. If you want something that people can just sit back and listen to I'd suggest the 225s.

The kick and the bass won't nessicarilly sound better with an 18" sub, but they will definitly have more impact. The only thing subs really do is move air, and unless you are really far away from them they are more felt than heard. That doesn't mean they don't play a role in music. They do, and that role is HUGE, and its what people really move to.

I like the Yamaha subs better than the any other I've heard. If you decide to go with the sub/top setup, I think they're at least worth a listen.

Thanks for that... It definitely answers my question. I am starting to think that it might be better though to go say with a couple dual 15" speakers and single 18" sub. It's all pretty confusing, LOL. Our church building is pretty small, and some of the congregation is right next to the stage and almost under the speakers! Would it be worth putting the sub(s) at the back of the stage? We can't put the main speakers there because of feedback but it seems to me that the bass from one or two subwoofers would actually sound better coming from farther away.
 
Just to throw something else into the mix... Have you considered the new little Turbosounds? IN my opinion they sound much better than all the other speakers in their price range until you get to the new JBL Srx700 series stuff. For subs, I would go with 15's given the size and type of space you will be in. The Turbosounds sound much smoother and more natural than other PA cabs in their range. Personally, I have never been a big JBL fan. The new SRX700 stuff though actually sounds very good, especially when you compare it to what you pay for it. The Turbosound also fits that market segment well bringing a good balance of power to price to performance. As far as JBL goes though, the JRX is really bottom of the barrel for JBL.
 
Thanks for that XStatic... I had received a quote on turbosound stuff, but I didn't know if it was decent or not. Which turbosounds are you referring to? Is the TXD 151 a good option? Why do you say 15" sub? Is there a reason that's better or just pricewise? Is it better to have a double 15" or a single 18". I'm sure you guys know far more than I do about this stuff :rolleyes:
 
If the room is small and quiet 18s may be a bit much. I think that is why x suggested the 15s for subs. If you do that, you may want to look at 12s for tops.

Turbosounds sound great. I don't hear them very often, but the few times I have heard them I've been impressed. They're usually a bit more expensive than any of the other speakers you've mentioned though.

Depending on how small the building is, you may be better off just letting the instruments mix themselves and just getting something to run vocals trough. I worry about some of these being a little too loud for the building.

What are you running now and what are you looking to accomplish with your upgrade?
 
My subs areall 15's and I do full on rock for 5000+ person shows when necessary. The fact that a speaker is a 15" or an 18" isn't really all that important. What is really important is the implementation of the driver and cabinet, and the quality of the driver and power amp, and even crossover. In general, 15's will have a lot more punch to them, but won't hit down into the 30hz range nearly as well if at all. However, for live music only, and especially in a smaller room or for a smaller crowd, 30 hz is not something you want, but is most often removed in the system tuning. If you are runing a dance club, that's a different story.

As far as the Turbosound stuff goes, I think it is the new TXD line I am talking about. I know the tops retail at around $550 a piece, and single 15's for about $500. Personally, I would get dual 15" subs and 2x12"x2" tops. In the end, a well designed dual 15 sub will suit you better I think and ata the same time will save you a little money:)

As far as other brands go, I would seriously avoid the yamaha stuff, B52, Behringer, Carvin etc... If you go with EV or JBL or Turbosound in that price range you will get a more solid product that will retain its value better should you decide to upgrade in the future.
 
jharris said:
Thanks for that... It definitely answers my question. I am starting to think that it might be better though to go say with a couple dual 15" speakers and single 18" sub. It's all pretty confusing, LOL. Our church building is pretty small, and some of the congregation is right next to the stage and almost under the speakers! Would it be worth putting the sub(s) at the back of the stage? We can't put the main speakers there because of feedback but it seems to me that the bass from one or two subwoofers would actually sound better coming from farther away.

Don't mix sub boxes. Stick with the same brand, box, and driver size for all your subs. For various reasons, mixing and matching subs usually leads to worse performance.

Don't put them at the back of the stage, either. Subs by their nature put out a delayed signal with respect to the tops. Moving them back from the mains will only increase problems with clarity. Putting them at the back of the stage can also give you lots of resonance problems with drums, etc., and give you lots of low-end bleed into the stage mics.
 
xstatic said:
As far as the Turbosound stuff goes, I think it is the new TXD line I am talking about. I know the tops retail at around $550 a piece, and single 15's for about $500. Personally, I would get dual 15" subs and 2x12"x2" tops. In the end, a well designed dual 15 sub will suit you better I think and ata the same time will save you a little money:)

Thanks for that... That really helps ;)

Is there an advantage in using 12" tops? I can get 15" for about the same price so I had assumed that I might as well get the bigger speaker, but then is bigger always better? LOL.
 
Too bad price is a factor in your decision, otherwise I would recommend these:

Daedalus Audio

The ones I suggest are the SR-823s, but they are pricey!
 
Looking at the Turbosound stuff... The TXD 215 (double 15" sub) has a crossover to feed directly to a speaker. This will supposedly mean that I only need one (dual channel) amp instead of two amps. Doesn't this mean that the one amp would need to be bigger in order to drive the sub and the speaker through the sub? Also will it sound lousy if one speaker lead is coming from the crossover in the sub and one is direct from the mixer? I will be running these from a DBX driverack PA which has a crossover, but if I use that crossover then I will need two amps again... right? :confused:
 
jharris said:
Thanks for that... That really helps ;)

Is there an advantage in using 12" tops? I can get 15" for about the same price so I had assumed that I might as well get the bigger speaker, but then is bigger always better? LOL.


Many times vocal clarity is better with a 12" than a 15".
 
In general, 12" speakers have a clearer sound. My main cabs actually use dual 10"s and put out PLENTY of volume. It really has to do with the quality of the drivers (RCF in my case). If you go with dual 15" subs they will be a little more punchy. If However you go with dual 18" subs, you will have an easier time getting a big sound for CD playback at things like raves and larger DJ stuff.

The Turbosound subs do haveinternal crossovers. If you use the crossovers on the subs, then you can run the sub and tops on one amplifier, but I would definately get a larger amp. If you use the DBX driverack PA as your crossover, than you will have to have a seperate amp channel for your subs and tops. By doing this you will actually get a louder fuller sound and have a lot more headroom left at your amps. What I would do, is use the internal crossover first until you can afford, or feel the need to move to a biamped setup. Personally, I would run passive first and make sure you get a quality large enough amp rather than getting two cheaper amps to run biamped. When you can afford it down the road, than get a smaller quality amp and switch to biamped mode. Personally, have a look at Crown Macrotech 3600's, or Crest CA18's. That should have no problem driving 4 dual 15" subs or 2 dual 15" subs and 2 dual 12" tops or something similar. Then down the road when you can afford it, pick up a Macrotech 2400 or a Crest CA12 and use it for your tops, and the other amp for your subs. Once you move to biamped mode, you should have enough power in your racks with this setup to add some more speakers should you desire.

The advantage to doing it as I suggested is that you don't have to rebuy stuff later. You will always be leaving yourself with a modular upgrade path.
 
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