Best software for programing pop/classical backtracks??

AudioWebs

New member
I am interested in creating backtrack music to pop and classical vocal (emma shapplin etc... kind of operetic) overlapping.

I am unfamiliar with VST and don't think MIDI quality is good enough - I am looking to have drums (which I already have some of) and all orchestral instruments along with piano.

I would like to be able to create, "write", tracks on a program to make this music......

.....I'm totally in the dark as to software for this type of thing so please help me out!

I'd like not to have to piece together samples I want something that's designed for orchstration -

no budget needed

Thanks!
 
What do you mean "midi quality"? (this is a meaningless term...)

Midi is nothing more than a control protocol - it has no sound... it controls other units that PRODUCE the sound.

If you want good-sounding patches, you have to purchase an instrument/synth that contains good-sounding patches (Kurzweil comes to mind), or you can buy s/w-based VST instruments, which are the same as synths/keyboards without the hardware. There are varying degrees of sound quality there too (just like with actual keyboards).

Whether the samples are good or not, they are all controlled by midi.
 
Try some demos and see what you like (Cool edit pro, Soundforge, Cakewalk, Pro Tools to name a few)
There are tons of high quality sample CD's out there, but be prepared to pay a small fortune for the best ones.
 
BlueBear is right. Also, how else bu through MIDI is any program going to be able to orchestrate something?

Stealthtech, he's not looking for recording software, he's looking for something like Band In A Box or Jammer Pro that can generate MIDI tracks for different instruments based on choosing the basic lead-sheet harmony and picking a style or style to generate the parts in. Either of these programs are pretty good at doing this for some music styles, depending on how well the identifiable characteristics of a style have been captured. I have Band In A Box and it has a couple of dozen styles grouped under the heading "Classical." Styles can also be created using the program once you learn how.

Check out the company's website at http://www.pgmusic.com/
 
I checked out band in a box.

Yeah - it's literally that. This programs layout honestly looks worse than a 2 year olds crayon coloring. This program costs 250 dollars? (it's the full version mpx or something)?

Has anyone here seen this layout? It literally looks so funny I could not believe it. I thought it was a joke on me.

Ok people - I want a program that PROFESSIONALS use to orchestrate orchestral instrumentation that would back up a professional classical singer like josh groban, emma shapplin etc.....

And I know they don't use "real" orchestras either - what is a REAL program.

BTW - the sound quality of this crap in a box is worse than 1980's keyboard sounds. I want stuff that those artists above use!
 
AudioWebs said:


And I know they don't use "real" orchestras either - what is a REAL program.

I think you might be surprised, the "PROFESSIONALS" still do use "real" orchestras.

You seem like a real sack taster, but I will try to help you out anyway.

Get GigaSampler or GigaStudio, since budget is not a concern, you won't mind building a new machine to run this program exclusively (you need to do this).

http://www.tascam.com/products/product_information.php?product_id=7
 
AudioWebs said:
BTW - the sound quality of this crap in a box is worse than 1980's keyboard sounds. I want stuff that those artists above use!
You don't seem to understand the underlying principle behind midi -- BIAB has no "sound quality" - it is a glorified midi controller and nothing more.

The "sound quality" depends totally on what sound devices BIAB is controlling.... if the sound is "bad", it's the device that's being driven that sounds bad.... (ie - YOUR gear, not the software).....

MIDI itself has no sound......

ged'dit yet??? :rolleyes:
 
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AudioWebs said:
I checked out band in a box.

Yeah - it's literally that. This programs layout honestly looks worse than a 2 year olds crayon coloring. This program costs 250 dollars? (it's the full version mpx or something)?

Has anyone here seen this layout? It literally looks so funny I could not believe it. I thought it was a joke on me.

Ok people - I want a program that PROFESSIONALS use to orchestrate orchestral instrumentation that would back up a professional classical singer like josh groban, emma shapplin etc.....

And I know they don't use "real" orchestras either - what is a REAL program.

BTW - the sound quality of this crap in a box is worse than 1980's keyboard sounds. I want stuff that those artists above use!

Lesson #1 when it comes to music production :

Know what the hell you're talking about!!! You can create something if you don't know how to use the tools...
 
Acid's pretty good - but you need good loops & VSTi's to use with it.

I have BIAB (and Power Tracks) - the interface IS sucky. But the point is that if you hook it up to GOOD sound sources (Edirol's high-end GM box, maybe), it will sound much better. I only paid $89 for BIAB, but it was a while ago, and I haven't been using it, so I haven't picked up the upgrades. The style disks (extra $$, but maybe included in the higher price you quoted) are reputed to be pretty good, though - if you can get past that 1995 VB-for-DOS interface, I've heard some good music made with it.

Daf
 
AudioWebs, you truly are a case, aren't you.

"The Professionals" do not use programs that write the orchestrations for them. They use sequencers to build arrangements in MIDI and send the MIDI out to high-quality synths and samplers loaded up with great sample soundsets. There are many choices -- sequencing software could be ProTools, Digtal Performer, Logic, SONAR, Cubase... synths and samplers could be by Emu, Akai, Toland, Korg, Yamaha ... top-flight sound sets for orchestral instruments include the Garritan Strings and the Miroslav Vitous sets...

But even with all that technology the composer needs to compose. And if they want something really generic, quick and dirty, they might indeed use Band In A Box, as ther are very few of these toolson the market at any level.

Despite its old-fashioned, cluttered, goofball interface (Jammer Pro's was pretty bad too, last time I looked), Band In A Box is a powerful tool. And it's not $250, it's $88. The $250 is for BIAB and a bunch of extras. Even so, $250 is damn cheap for the utility it gives you, if instant generic backing tracks is your goal.

And since you didn't hear Blue Bear Sound, I'll repeat it -- the "sound quality" of BIAB is not inherent in the software -- it creates MIDI messages. The sound quality is entirely dependent on the sound source(s) that you direct its MIDI messages to.

Finally have to comment that this statement:

"I want a program that PROFESSIONALS use to orchestrate orchestral instrumentation that would back up a professional classical singer like josh groban, emma shapplin etc..."

is just priceless. First off, Josh Groban a classical artist? Anyway, that aside, do you think stars of his caliber would be using a program to automatically generate arrangements of their tunes for the recordings? They might well sit in their home studios while writing and use -- yes, really -- BIAB -- to sketch out an apporimate idea of what they are after -- but when recording for the album they hire real musicians, and even if the orchestral parts are rendered with a synth, they get someone who can play the shit out of the keyboards to play the parts with a real human performance instead of using generated BIAB tracks. If they did otherwise, their records would sound like they were performed by the autogeneration routine on a Casio keyboard regardless of the sound quality of the actual sounds used -- because machines can't capture the subtleties of parts played by human performers. By diligent editing and manipulation you can approximate it, but that becomes a black hole of endless tedious work, and any professional would hire musicians rather than endlessly tweak a computer-generated performance to make it sound more real.

And this statement -- "And I know they don't use 'real' orchestras either..." -- well, what you think you know is (again) wrong. At this level they damn well do use real orchestras. No matter how good of a violin sample you have, and how great of a keyboardist you have, the best you can do is approximate the sound of a real violun, unless you could sample every possible alteration in sound a real violin makes when played by a real violinist -- all the infinite gradations of how the bow is held and how hard it is squezzed and how fast it slides across the strings and how tight the body of the instrument is held to the chest... to try to get this out of samples is very difficult, and even the best can only, with a huge amount of effort, get something that sounds pretty darn good but would still be spotted as fake by anyone else with experience and ears. It's actually cheaper to hire an orchestra than to take the time it would take manipulating the samples to make a keyboard performance of strings or winds more realistic -- and in the end the results sound better.

As a compromise, especially for movie soundtracks where it's not that critical, sometimes a real string or woodwind section will be recorded and overlaid over tracks done with samplers, or at least the main parts will be performed by real players. When the budget is really low they might settle for completely sample-derived orchestral parts, but usually the all-electronic scores are electronic in sound and meant to be so, not an attempt to really sound like a real orchestra.
 
Thanks to one person for actually helping!

Brad - Thanks, I've purchased Giga Sampler and already have a brand new computer to use it on.

Everyone else seems to really have anger towards others. I hope you'll learn to be happy :)
 
Guilty!

We have do anger towards the demonstrably idiotic, pretty much true...

What will you say when you discover that Gigasampler won't write any music for you?

I mean, that is what you asked for in the first place.
 
I don't get it AW - I tried to play nice. Not a drop of vitriol in my comment.

You just don't want to hear anybody say anything nice about BIAB? 'Zat it?

BTW, Acid & Vegas are really aimed at the soundtrack market - the Acid loops will cost ya - but they're way cheaper than Giga sample disks...

Daf
 
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