Best mixing desk position in cube room

  • Thread starter Thread starter reshp1
  • Start date Start date
reshp1

reshp1

New member
Hello,
First off, I apologize if this has been covered before, but I couldn't think of the proper search terms to find it.

I'm trying to record and mis in essentially a cube room 12X14 w/10' ceilings. I have a limited amount of acoustic treatment that I can do because it's a rented apartment and I'll be moving out in less than 6 months.

In the meantime, I was wondering whether it would be best to place my mix desk in the middle of the short wall, the long wall, or in a corner. I understand that I should try to keep the monitors away from the walls if possible, but I don't want to set up the desk smack dab in the middle of the room either. I hurt myself enough finding my way to the door in the dark as it is. :D

Combing through this forum has helped tremendously already, and thanks in advance for your help on this matter.
Mike
 
You just need to make sure your head is not in the middle of the room. You can have the mixer relatively close to a wall if you treat the walls properly to contain the early reflections. Some Minitraps would work well for that. Some times turning the mixing desk diagonally can be a quick alternative. Minitraps would still be required and their portable so you can take them wherever you go.


SoMm
 
Mike,

> cube room 12X14 w/10' ceilings <

That's not exactly a cube. :D

> I was wondering whether it would be best to place my mix desk ... <

This comes up so often I just wrote an article for my company's site that explains how to set up a room. Here's a direct link:

www.realtraps.com/art_room-setup.htm

--Ethan
 
While you offer great information Ethan, and I am sure everyone appreciates it, but frankly I'm getting tired of seeing advertisements for your company accompanying everything you post, INCLUDING your companys URL at the bottom. As far as I am concerned, this is a blatant advertising campaign using puplic forums as a podium. Information is one thing, but in so doing, your articles also advertise your products on public forums. In my opinion, this is a stealth form of spam , and this isn't the only place I see it. It's starting to irritate me. I think you have stepped over the commercial spam line. ESPECIALLY after reading this. :rolleyes:
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1383 :mad:
 
Near field monitors are the key!

As an old timer (working in studios since 1971) I have seen and heard a lot of play back systems... Some amazing and incredibly expensive built in wall speakers etc. But they all have one thing in common... a set of smaller nearfield monitors to listen to and reference the mix on.

The theory is that the nearfield speakers are so close to your ears that they are almost like headphones in a sense. You will not be hearing alot of room sound, just what is coming from the speakers.

There is a very small "sweet spot" (optimal listening location) in a small triangle an equal distance from the two speakers.

I use my big high volume playback speakers for young rock and rollers to listen to their tracks, but when it comes time to mix I mostly use the nearfields, and set the sound level at just about 85 db.

:) Dom
 
fitZ,

> Information is one thing, but in so doing, your articles also advertise your products on public forums. <

Okay, fair enough. So what do you suggest? Shall I stop writing new articles that help people understand acoustics and room setup, etc? Or would you prefer I just stop helping people altogether? I'm not sure what your objection is. A sig line with a commercial link is very common, and you're the first person I've ever heard object to that practice. I'm a reasonable guy, so tell me what you'd do if you were in my shoes and I'll gladly consider it.

> ESPECIALLY after reading this <

What do you object to there? Kase offered a product idea suggestion and I commented on that. Then midigod asked a specific question about my company's product:
I was wondering if you could elaborate a little on why you believe the MiniTraps are better.
And I gave a direct answer. Then midigod asked if I disputed the tests Auralex did and I explained why I did - because they violate two fundamental rules of testing: have enough material and avoid arranging it as a long thin shape. Then midigod asked about a direct comparison between my products and 18 inches of fiberglass flat on the rear wall. And I answered that too.

Again, what would you have me do? Ignore the questions? Feign ignorance? Something else? I'm not trying to be combative here, but I don't understand your objection. It's not like I'm spamming newsgroups with ads, like the guy from Cesium Sound that blasts all the newsgroups once a week with ads for MIDI synth sound libraries.

I'm open to your suggestions.

--Ethan
 
IMHO, I don't see Ethan's posts as being spam...his links while coincidentally plugging his materials are helpful and informative. If his posted materials were incomplete and suggest that to get the rest of the story you should buy materials or services then, I would object but he's kicking out the goods.

I'm good with it.
 
Thanks for the info everyone, I'll have to play around with a couple of setups and listen to find the best one. You guys rule. :D
 
Hello Ethan, and thankyou for your resonable response. Ok, let me qualify my
objection with your "linking" to information.
First, I am all for "free enterprize", and admire you entreprenural expertise. I too have a business, although it is a small one man enterprise. So I can relate to the need to connect with possible consumers. I too have the capability to build many products and items, although custom, that meet the needs of Homerecording enthusiasts, and frequently see requests from people looking for services regarding items found in studios, such as consoles, racks etc. However, I am of the nature, and opinion, that such tactics as linking ones replys to direct advertising is not only offensive, but smacks of using ones position in the net community to further ones entreprenural ventures, which may be ok with some people, but I find it ethically distastefull, if not downright irritating.
Second, your knowledge of this field, which you also receive income for professional writing services for, while enlightening, also allows questionable practices to occur in the process of giving people access to it. For instance, you write articles for trade magazines, which you are PAID to write, and then post this same article on your companys website. I don't know how the legalities of purchasing services for producing copywrite material that are published works is handled , and by who this said material is owned once published, but I do know that when a songwriter is published, the "ownership" of the PUBLISHING rights to the song becomes the property of the publishing house. IF, the songwriter LATER publishes his songs via another route, then becomes liable for legal remedies sought by the legal owner. I don't know if this is the case with written articles for magazines whom you provide services, but it would seem like the publisher of these magazines, who paid for your services, would become the rightfull owner of these articles. I do know this though. When you provide a link, on public forums to these articles, best intentions or not, these articles are ENVELOPED in a framework of advertising for your companys products, so I cannot possibly accept the notion that you provide access to this information out of the goodness of your heart, or as most people here, share information for the goodness of the audio enthusiasts community at large just because you share an interest in the subject and participate with that motive in mind.
My intuition also tells me, that because of the intimate relationship between technical knowledge possessed by people who also happen to own a company that sell products based on this knowledge, and a community interested in learning this knowledge for their own use, it is quite easy to manipulate ones access to this "interest" for their entreprenural gain. Now, I may be reading something into this that doesn't quite exist, although for any rational person who visits the audio forums at large,they could not POSSIBLY miss it, but I personally have began to see a pattern of manipulation of this access, that manifests itself in a broad campaign of company logo stamps in public places, which is no different than Coca Cola, subsidizing the production of a movie, while using this legal position to inject subtle and even sometimes
enormously blatant use of images of it's products within the framework of the PRODUCTION, which in reality, to me, is the most maddening form of manipulative advertising I have ever witnessed. When one PAYS to view or be etertained by any form of interest, and is unwittingly forced to view images of products however subtle, I for one become infuriated by this advertising scam that borders on psychological advertising warfare. I can even hear the advertising exec's laughing at SELLING their advertisements to the public. It reminds me of heanous advertising scheme of the early 19th century, when the Tuna industry sought to change the fish
eating habits of the world, by boldly purchasing full page newspaper space in the worlds largest subscriptions, advertising the virtues of Tuna vs Salmon, by suggesting there was something inherently dangerous with Salmon, by GUARANTEEING, that Tuna, no matter how long before consumption took place, would NEVER turn PINK!!!! Talk about manipulation of perception. Not that this occurs as a result of your method of logo and product insertion into public forums. On the contrary. However, this brings up the next point of my objection clarification.
I posted this link to your discussion with a member on Johns site, for one reason only. I am aware of the ongoing display of animosity between you and the well known acoustician,who routinely points out his view of your data
interpretation and backs this view with technical evidence to inform the viewer with precise, and documented data of his own. Whether or not this is evidence of intenional data manipulation on your behalf is of no consequence to me. However, IF the suggestion that it does indeed
occur, WERE to becomes fact, the overall picture of manipulation would become clear, and obviously have a bearing on the perception of your motives as stated above. Untill such time occures, I will reserve judgement in that regard, but like most people who read such technical intercourse as the link illustrates, I possess limited knowledge to form an informed opinion as to the truth. Therefore, all I can do is help distribute this public displayed intercourse so interested viewers become aware of professional contesting of your published data, so they can form their own opinion, as without it, ALL they have is your word. And since THIS is a forum for mostly UNENLIGHTENED and knowledge thirsty participants, I feel obliged as a member, to bring whatever connected information I feel is relevant, to the forefront.
So in that light, I hope my motive for my posting this verbose reply becomes clear. I have no alternate suggestions for you to alieviate my concerns, other than to dislodge your connection between information, and advertising on your companys website. However, I also cannot offer
an alternate method to so. I will add this. I am only one member, but have a right to post my dislike of this sort of connection between commerce, and sharing of information.
fitZ
 
Hey Fitz2,

I appreciate your position and can understand your reasonings. Your complaint sounds well thought out but, I go back to saying that folks like Ethan really contribute to this board. He's a pro, taking time to help out here and his time and expertise is worth a little something. I suspect that there arent a lot of sales generated directly through this site but, he does get a fair amount of publicity here. He's way outside my league and not likely to get me as a paying customer. I for one don't really think much about his motives...is he being generous or just getting some air time...I don't know. I'm actually surprised that I could make contact with a person of his background without having to pay a consultation fee. A plug here and there I guess I can over look it. I just hope that we don't run him off.

As for tuna vs. salmon...I much prefer Halibut :)

Have a good one
 
Last edited:
This post was supposed to be about 'Mixing desk position"?

Lets get back on topic and help our brother with his monitoring questions...


Thanks DOM :rolleyes:
 
fitZ2 said:
While you offer great information Ethan, and I am sure everyone appreciates it, but frankly I'm getting tired of seeing advertisements for your company accompanying everything you post, INCLUDING your companys URL at the bottom. As far as I am concerned, this is a blatant advertising campaign using puplic forums as a podium. Information is one thing, but in so doing, your articles also advertise your products on public forums. In my opinion, this is a stealth form of spam , and this isn't the only place I see it. It's starting to irritate me. I think you have stepped over the commercial spam line. ESPECIALLY after reading this. :rolleyes:
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1383 :mad:

is that you DJL?
 
First off, my apology to Mike for ranting on his thread. I didn't want to start a thread with a complaint. Only reply to Ethan when he provided a link, because that is what this is about.


And gentleman, like I stated right off the bat. Ethan has provided a source for great information, and gives it all the time. I don't have a problem with that. Hell, if anything I have benefited from his information. But if EVERYONE here had a company, this would begin to look like billboard city, and I'm sure the moderator would have something to say. Ok, I've stated my concern and nothing will change. I'm only one member who feels this way maybe, and I've said my piece. Ok. Back to business as usual.

is that you DJL?
No Gidge, this is Rick Fitzpatrick. I had to re register because my other computer fried.. Waiting for new power supply. I'm using my wifes computer at the moment.
fitZ
 
Rick,

You wrote an awful lot so I'll comment on just the high points.

> such tactics as linking ones replys to direct advertising <

In case you're not aware, the article I link to 95% of the time is my Acoustics FAQ, which is on my personal web site and is free of commercial references.

> you write articles for trade magazines, which you are PAID to write <

This is not a big secret: most magazines - especially niche magazines like those that cater to home studios - pay very little. If I end up earning $10 per hour I'm lucky.

> said material is owned once published <

These days a common arrangement is for the magazine to buy the right to be the first to print an article, and the author retains the copyright. Sometimes magazines also ask for the right to include the article in an annual "buyer's guide" type issue and not have to pay again.

> I cannot possibly accept the notion that you provide access to this information out of the goodness of your heart <

Sorry, but that's the absolute truth. I've been writing for audio magazines since the late 1970s, and RealTraps is only two years old. I've also been helping people on the 'net since before the Web, when the CompuServe MIDI forum was the most popular place for folks like us to chat and share information.

> When one PAYS to view or be etertained by any form of interest, and is unwittingly forced to view images of products however subtle <

I could not agree more. I despise that movie theaters force ads on paying patrons, and IMO "crawl" ads shown on-screen while a TV show is in progress should be prosecuted as a criminal offense. I don't see how that relates here in a public forum that charges no fee.

> when the Tuna industry sought to change the fish eating habits <

Rick, I agree again, but you're really getting pretty far afield there!

> I am aware of the ongoing display of animosity between you and the well known acoustician, who routinely points out his view of your data
interpretation and backs this view with technical evidence <

Nah, he's an idiot, and not so well known. Do a Google on him and then on me, and you'll immediately see who has more credibility. Not that fame has any bearing on one's competence. But Eric is extremely biased and contradictory, and it should be obvious to anyone he has an axe to grind. A lot of Eric's motive is his friendship with Auralex.

You can tell who knows what they're talking about and who's full of crap by seeing who resorts to name calling and who sticks to the facts. 'Nuff said.

> intenional data manipulation on your behalf <

Not even close. Which is what bugs him so much. All our stuff is measured in a real acoustics lab using a sufficient sample size to ensure accurate results. I'm disappointed that you think I would even consider such shenanigans.

Anyway, thanks for expressing your opinion. It's every bit as valid as anyone else's.

--Ethan
 
Hello Ethan and thank you for addressing my concerns with honesty and frankness. Your explaination of things has satisfied my concerns. Please do not think that "I" have an axe to grind too. I'm just the type of person that sees things I don't care for and says something about it. My wife says I've become a negative old fart. :rolleyes: I'll be the first to admit to your constant posting of information to help people, and that was NOT my concern, so, as you said, take it with a LARGE grain of salt, as my opinion is that, and nothing else. While I may not agree with certain aspects of this subject, I also do not want to be accused of causing you to decide to quit helping people, which I am sure you would not, just because of my opinion. So, as they say in the military....."Carry On"! :D
fitZ
"We now return you to the previously scheduled program" :p
 
Rick,

> My wife says I've become a negative old fart. :rolleyes: <

Your wife should meet my wife - they'd have a lot in common. I have been a big complainer for all of my adult life. I complain about traffic lights, TV ads, the increase in name calling and issue avoidance in politics, people's gullible belief in superstition, and enough more to fill at least five pages. Single spaced.

In the 1980s I worked as an electronics engineer for a small company, and the office manager bought me this sign:

complaints.jpg


The point being that I generate the complaints, not man a Complaints desk to handle others mouthing off. :D

Thanks.

--Ethan
 
Ethan Winer said:
Rick,

> My wife says I've become a negative old fart. :rolleyes: <

Your wife should meet my wife - they'd have a lot in common. I have been a big complainer for all of my adult life. I complain about traffic lights, TV ads, the increase in name calling and issue avoidance in politics, people's gullible belief in superstition, and enough more to fill at least five pages. Single spaced.

In the 1980s I worked as an electronics engineer for a small company, and the office manager bought me this sign:

complaints.jpg


The point being that I generate the complaints, not man a Complaints desk to handle others mouthing off. :D

Thanks.

--Ethan

Haha, I get it, Ethan "Whiner" :D
Just kidding, Thanks for all the info you've shared in this forum and at your website.
 
Your wife should meet my wife - they'd have a lot in common. I have been a big complainer for all of my adult life. I complain about traffic lights, TV ads, the increase in name calling and issue avoidance in politics, people's gullible belief in superstition, and enough more to fill at least five pages. Single spaced.


Cool, now I can PROVE to my wife I'm not the only complainer on the planet!! :D I complain about the same things. :rolleyes: God its tough being a grouchy old fart but SOMEONE has to do it. :p
fitZ :)
 
Corner desk setup next to vocal booth

I have photos attached of the room. iam renting it in a commercial place. the table came with the room and the vocal booth also. i wanna know if i should leave the mixing desk in the corner.or should i move and if i do which wall? can i leave it there if i treat the room acoustically. room layout is there also ill include the measurements
The room is 16ft 3 1/2in long 13ft 7 1/2in wide 13' 5 1/2in high. the vocal booth inside is 4ft 9 3/4in long 5ft 6 1/4in wide 7ft 11in high (the outside of the vocal booth is 5ft 10in long by 6ft 7in wide) the vocal booth has a 3ft window on the side. if drop ceiling were installed what wold be a good height?
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20121025_194232.webp
    IMG_20121025_194232.webp
    109.5 KB · Views: 67
  • IMG_20121025_194244.webp
    IMG_20121025_194244.webp
    176 KB · Views: 67
  • IMG_20121025_194254.webp
    IMG_20121025_194254.webp
    104.1 KB · Views: 67
  • IMG_20121025_194305.webp
    IMG_20121025_194305.webp
    86.2 KB · Views: 66
  • IMG_20121025_194313.webp
    IMG_20121025_194313.webp
    92.6 KB · Views: 65
  • IMG_20121025_194345.webp
    IMG_20121025_194345.webp
    96.2 KB · Views: 61
  • IMG_20121025_194402.webp
    IMG_20121025_194402.webp
    108.2 KB · Views: 65
  • IMG_20121025_194415.webp
    IMG_20121025_194415.webp
    113.6 KB · Views: 64
  • resource_export_1351802411999.webp
    resource_export_1351802411999.webp
    241 KB · Views: 64
Back
Top