Best cheap small diaphragm mic pair?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Disease8
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Well, you have a pair of cheap mics you don't like, but presume that another cheap pair would be better? Just learn to use what you have, and save up the cash for a pair of Beyer MC930s* (I would buy MC910s because omni is better, but you probably don't agree). Otherwise you will be back here in six months asking us the same question again. I mean £200 + £125 = £325, another ~£200 and you'd have the MC930s. But you already spent the first £125? Well, don't do that again.

Here's a puzzle for you in the meantime: if you take a mic with no highs and 17dBA self-noise, and a mic with a tremendous amount of highs and 22dBA self-noise, and you apply, say, a first-order cut with -3dB point at 6kHz to equalize the frequency response of the two microphones, what is the resulting comparative noise? The A-weighting doesn't change a whole lot, just a little (due to the weighting factors applied), but how about your perception of noise? Or do the opposite, take your mics and boost the highs--I haven't seen a lot of EQs with boosts that work quite the same way as cuts, so you'll have to play with a high-shelf boost until you get a similar result. You'd want a boost of 3dB at 6kHz with a slope up to ~20dB at 20kHz.

Well that's all just for fun. MC930 = 16dBA, plus excellent high frequency response.









*For US people reading this post, I'd say Shure KSM141s instead, but those are too expensive in Europe. Although you get switchable patterns, so still worth the thought.
 
dervish riff said:
+1 on the e70's, I got a pair by luck, they're labeled as Astatic CTM-1000. The guy I got them from on C'list had pictures that didn't match up with Astatic's pictures. I put 2 and 2 together and gave the guy $40.00, just like he asked.:D
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I have a pair and found them to be terrible mics, almost identical to the Nady CM-90, but with a roll-off switch. Not that it needs one. Bass response is subpar anyway. Massive HF exaggeration, brittle top end in general. If you're willing to grind the front bars off and recap the thing, it can become a very usable mic. As-is, they're awful, and as an X-Y stereo pair, they are unusable. You just don't get much perception of stereo; they sound more like omnis in that regard.
 
In the specified price range, I like the Studio Projects C-4's. There pretty flat, you get omni and cardioid caps, shock mounts, and a flight case. I used mine for 3 years until an upgrade, and sold them for 75% of what I paid for them. I can't bitch.-Richie
 
dgatwood said:
I have a pair and found them to be terrible mics, almost identical to the Nady CM-90, but with a roll-off switch. Not that it needs one. Bass response is subpar anyway. Massive HF exaggeration, brittle top end in general. If you're willing to grind the front bars off and recap the thing, it can become a very usable mic. As-is, they're awful, and as an X-Y stereo pair, they are unusable. You just don't get much perception of stereo; they sound more like omnis in that regard.
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What front bars? They don't have bars on the capsule. There's a gold mesh. There were also two different versions. Maybe the ones you got are not the same. The ones I have (CAD e70) don't have any problems with high end or low response. They sound comparable to an SM-81.
 
The e70's I have never had any bars over the capsule, in fact, the capsules are interchangable--though I didn't get the omnis with the mics. As was said, CAD/Astatic got their model names and mics mixed up in several instances--I remember seeing the MXL/Nady style SDC mics and checking out M. Joly's mods, which involve reworking the capsule end of the mic. And making sure the mics I bought weren't like that.

I'm not saying the e70's are the best thing going, but I like what I got for $40.00.;)
 
mshilarious said:
Well, you have a pair of cheap mics you don't like, but presume that another cheap pair would be better? Just learn to use what you have, and save up the cash for a pair of Beyer MC930s* (I would buy MC910s because omni is better, but you probably don't agree). Otherwise you will be back here in six months asking us the same question again. I mean £200 + £125 = £325, another ~£200 and you'd have the MC930s. But you already spent the first £125? Well, don't do that again.

Here's a puzzle for you in the meantime: if you take a mic with no highs and 17dBA self-noise, and a mic with a tremendous amount of highs and 22dBA self-noise, and you apply, say, a first-order cut with -3dB point at 6kHz to equalize the frequency response of the two microphones, what is the resulting comparative noise? The A-weighting doesn't change a whole lot, just a little (due to the weighting factors applied), but how about your perception of noise? Or do the opposite, take your mics and boost the highs--I haven't seen a lot of EQs with boosts that work quite the same way as cuts, so you'll have to play with a high-shelf boost until you get a similar result. You'd want a boost of 3dB at 6kHz with a slope up to ~20dB at 20kHz.

Well that's all just for fun. MC930 = 16dBA, plus excellent high frequency response.









*For US people reading this post, I'd say Shure KSM141s instead, but those are too expensive in Europe. Although you get switchable patterns, so still worth the thought.
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wow you are amazing, do you do that for a living? Can I hire you for childrens parties? Ain't seen a good clown for a while.... I KNOW THAT SHIT STAY ON TOPIC!!!

I don't want expensive mics they are a rip off jus tell me the good cheap ones like asked..Studio Projects have impressed me before there c4 that good? I want low inherant noise under 20 dB and cardoid... maybe changable capsules would be nice but not top priority...

To be honest I'm feeling like just getting Beh C2's just to help add more channels recording.. I just had a recording sesh and realised I need a couple more condensers for small things like hi hats..
 
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mshilarious said:
There aren't any . . . see you in six months! :p
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Its ok I won't be asking you for a patronizing lecture thank you....

If you read the title of the thread it says "best cheap small diaphragm condenser" . . . . What would you recommend under £200 for a pair or something more like this price reigon? I like the look of those Beyer mics, I would love them but I have tried to invest more in my pre's (focusrite) than my mics.... And I don't habve any money left.. Also due to the very low cost service I offer I do not want to risk going out with £300 mics...
 
Disease8 said:
Its ok I won't be asking you for a patronizing lecture thank you....

If you read the title of the thread it says "best cheap small diaphragm condenser" . . . . What would you recommend under £200 for a pair or something more like this price reigon? I like the look of those Beyer mics, I would love them but I have tried to invest more in my pre's (focusrite) than my mics.... And I don't habve any money left.. Also due to the very low cost service I offer I do not want to risk going out with £300 mics...
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Answer: the mics that you already have. You can get more out of them, just try a bit harder. Any of the other contenders in that range will have some different flaw. You say yours are dark; I'm rather have too dark than too bright. So you can spend your money buying four different flavors of OK but only good for certain things, and you have to take time to set up four different mics to try them out on everything. If your mics have good detail but not too much HF . . . use some EQ, that's free.

Answer #2: buy something used. The Beyers are too new for a good used deal, I would think. In the US, a pair of SM81s is doable for $350. UK, I dunno. AT has some nice SDCs (40 series) that should be very affordable used.
 
mshilarious said:
Answer: the mics that you already have. You can get more out of them, just try a bit harder. Any of the other contenders in that range will have some different flaw. You say yours are dark; I'm rather have too dark than too bright. So you can spend your money buying four different flavors of OK but only good for certain things, and you have to take time to set up four different mics to try them out on everything. If your mics have good detail but not too much HF . . . use some EQ, that's free.

Answer #2: buy something used. The Beyers are too new for a good used deal, I would think. In the US, a pair of SM81s is doable for $350. UK, I dunno. AT has some nice SDCs (40 series) that should be very affordable used.
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yeah I gues your right these mics will find certain jobs.. The T.bone sc180's I think will be nice on percussion (toms..etc) but not on say an acoustic guitar . . . Would be nice to have some all round mics though... Those AKG c1000s's and akg perception range kinda tempting but I think a small mic company will have less to loose making better mics at a more affordable price.. Thay don't have to protect there higher end market by holding quality back for bigger spenders . . . I like superlux mics and studio projects...
 
Superlux cm-h8k

http://www.proaudioreview.com/article/2250

don't sound that great maybe audio technica better . . . .
Can't afford this anyway but you guys have all helped me out loads got some good ideas... think its better to just get some C2's for now they are so cheap.. These will help me get enough channels in and hope fully allow me to get more jobs and save up for some Beyer or SP C4's . . . .
Thanks:cool:
 
Rode M3?

They are cheap and sound like people like them a lot...
 
mxl 603s

Product: MXL 603S
Price Paid: USD 100
Submitted 01/15/2009 at 07:21am by Michael Joly
Email: michael at oktavamod<dot>com

Reviewer Background :
Award-winning microphone designer

Overall Rating : 9
A great value microphone, an interesting history and surprising potential!

The condenser capsule used in the MXL 603 is a very fine-sounding clone attempt of the legendary Neumann KM-84 / KM 184 small diaphragm capsule (same capsule used in both mics). As you know, the capsule is the heart of a condenser mic - get the capsule right and you're on your way to getting the mic to sound right. The 603 uses a really sweet 17mm (active diameter) capsule with a gentle 2dB / octave boost of 4dB which shelves at 15kHz. The top end stays well integrated with the midrange and doesn't stand out like a peak on the plains.

But a close comparison of a stock MXL 603 and Neumann KM-184 reveals a shortcoming of the 603 capsule - the diaphragm sits about 5mm below the front edge of the capsule housing. With the diaphragm so far away a tunnel is created between the diaphragm and grille causing resonant chamber coloration. Also, the 603 capsule has a sharp front edge which causes diffraction coloration.

I recently developed the "Ultimate MXL 603" modification to address these shortcomings and also install my field-proven "Premium Electronics" upgrade into these mic. The results are remarkable - virtually indistinguishable from the $750 Neumann KM 184. But don't take my word for it, listen for yourself at:

http://www.oktavamodshop.com/product_info.php?products_id=119
 
The C2's for sure. They sound good and they're cheap, you can't really go wrong with them. Not much reason not to buy them, I felt. I don't regret it. They're good enough for me to record my whole kit with (with snare and kick spot mics), they do a great job. For things like recording just a hi-hat like you said, you don't need much more.
 
SlowerHand said:
The C2's for sure. They sound good and they're cheap, you can't really go wrong with them. Not much reason not to buy them, I felt. I don't regret it. They're good enough for me to record my whole kit with (with snare and kick spot mics), they do a great job. For things like recording just a hi-hat like you said, you don't need much more.
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yeah thats what i'm thinking...m thanks.. i will get good ones when i have £300
 
I think you'll be alright with the C2--I bought the C1 as a starter LDC, and it does OK for what it is. I was just lucky to have some extra cash when the CAD's turned up.

A lot of people don't realize that not everyone can just go and drop a couple hundred dollars on a single mic or other gear. I scrounge up a lot of the stuff I use, one of the few benefits of living around a bunch of clueless college students--guitars messed up, keyboards missing power supplies,etc....
 
dervish riff said:
A lot of people don't realize that not everyone can just go and drop a couple hundred dollars on a single mic or other gear.
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I think I understand that rather well. But there are really two different questions (maybe three) being asked in this thread:

Question #2: I have t.bones, I need another similar pair, how about C2s?

Answer: Sure.

Question #3: I don't have any mics, how about C2s?

Answer: Sure.

Question #1: I have t.bones, but I want something different/better, how about C2s?

Answer: Different, maybe; better :confused:

Remember that generally I am on the side of NOT spending money.
 
PhilGood said:
What front bars? They don't have bars on the capsule. There's a gold mesh. There were also two different versions. Maybe the ones you got are not the same. The ones I have (CAD e70) don't have any problems with high end or low response. They sound comparable to an SM-81.
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Mine are the Astatic branded version. Sounds like the CAD e70 uses the MXL 603 capsule.
 
That's really not enough of a budget for a PAIR. (squigley)L 200 is what $100 - $150 USD. So $50-$75 per mic. Behringer C2 is about the only one NEW at that price point. Most other PAIRS, you're looking at that PER MIC, minimum.

Beyer MC930 is cheap compared to say Senn. MKH 8040's. Which is cheap compared to say Neuman..... As far as respectable pairs for relatively cheap. NT5, STO-2, SM-81, AT4041, MK-012, ..... (not to imply cheap)

But it really depends on how you do the math. If you've got to spend an entire year figuring out what adjustments to make (EQ, filters, ....) to make them sound like everyone / everything else. Do you really value your time that litte? Or your clients value you to wait for you to figure it out and deliver something they can live with. When I get better mics, it's because I want to save the headache in post, not because I just want mics that costs $500 more than my current mics for the same basic end result. They're just mics, they take sound and generate an analog signal that can be digitized and reproduced after all. You've just got to pick which battles you want to wage and how much is that worth to you. Otherwise just get two SM57's and call it a day. Not that that's an ideal setup, but it meets your criteria (cheap).
 
Shadow_7 said:
That's really not enough of a budget for a PAIR. (squigley)L 200 is what $100 - $150 USD. So $50-$75 per mic.
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You did the currency conversion backwards. Don't feel bad, I did that once on a $15M transaction. That was an interesting phone call . . . anyway, £200 = $320.
 
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