Best attenuator

[Elmo89m]

Well, i really want a JCM2000 and i played in a band with someone who had one and i loved the way it sounded. AMAZING. But we were playing LOUD. I've never really used or even seen an attenuator but it is the only thing i can think of. my question is which one is best. MONEY IS an issue here but i dont want some pos. thanks

 

[ggunn]

Well, i really want a JCM2000 and i played in a band with someone who had one and i loved the way it sounded. AMAZING. But we were playing LOUD. I've never really used or even seen an attenuator but it is the only thing i can think of. my question is which one is best. MONEY IS an issue here but i dont want some pos. thanks

They are all pretty much the same. An attenuator runs the speaker line though some large wire-wound resistors (read: toaster) that converts a portion of the amp's output to heat. Static loads (resistors) don't load an amp exactly like speakers would, so there is a little alteration of the sound, but they work pretty well.

 

[rory]

I favor the THD hotplate. I tried a few and its the one that sounded best to my ears. It has two tone switches too, to boost either highs or lows (independently). I also like the fact that you can get basically any level you want. I use it with a 100 watt super lead and can play at small clubs. But, its pretty stupid...
Rory

 

[Light]

The Weber Mass helps to recreate the variable impedenence of a real speaker. A good thing, for sure.

I just got mine today.


Light


"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Monsoon]

The Weber Mass helps to recreate the variable impedenence of a real speaker. A good thing, for sure.

I just got mine today.


Light


"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

Light, I've been keeping my eye on the attenuator market. Would you post a review after you've played with it a bit?

 

[espskully]

I use the Dr Z airbrake. It doesn't seem to alter the tone too much until you use it on the lowest setting "bedroom", then the tone goes to shit. That's the only 1 I've used. It works pretty well, but for drastic results you'll suffer tone loss.

 

[sile2001]

Maybe you should start by thinking about what it is about the JCM2000 that makes you want it. Then see if you can get that through something less deafening and more convenient to move around. I have come to the conclusion that in these modern times, there is certainly no need for anything over 50 watts, and really anything over 30 watts. The stupidly overpowered amps and full stacks are a relic of the past...from when that crap was actually needed because the PA couldn't handle amplifiying the distorted sound. Nowadays, if you need more volume than a 30 watt can provide, then you're in a room where the amp by itself won't give proper sound distribution, and it should be run through the PA anyway.

You know a lot of the classic, "holy grail of sound" tones that you've heard on recordings? A lot of those are from 18-30 watt combos, not 100 watt stacks.

 

[Monsoon]

Maybe you should start by thinking about what it is about the JCM2000 that makes you want it. Then see if you can get that through something less deafening and more convenient to move around. I have come to the conclusion that in these modern times, there is certainly no need for anything over 50 watts, and really anything over 30 watts. The stupidly overpowered amps and full stacks are a relic of the past...from when that crap was actually needed because the PA couldn't handle amplifiying the distorted sound. Nowadays, if you need more volume than a 30 watt can provide, then you're in a room where the amp by itself won't give proper sound distribution, and it should be run through the PA anyway.

You know a lot of the classic, "holy grail of sound" tones that you've heard on recordings? A lot of those are from 18-30 watt combos, not 100 watt stacks.

I finally settled on an 18 watter, myself. Even so, volume can be an issue when you want to really push the power tubes. Haven't gigged or rehearsed with it, yet. With 7:00 being zero volume, I'm shaking the house at 10:00. Haven't yet dared approach 12:00. One of these days I'll have to open it up to 2:00 and hear what the amp really sounds like.

 

[Elmo89m]

well say i got a 50 watter. I would be afraid that when i played with the guy with the 100 watter i would get pummeled down, even though we practice in a basement rather than a stadium. so you think i should get the jcm 2000 50W then eh. HOw big of a venue could i play using a 50watter for hard rock then? WOuld it be big enough to play and bar of 400-600 people or would it need to go through the PA for that.

 

[Jacko]

theres pretty much no difference between 50 and 100 watt amps, except maybe 20 decibles tops, but its like 140 compaired to 120, that is when both amps are clipping, the real difference is a 100 watt amp has a tighter low end, so you shouldnt really have a problem with half the wattage

 

[sile2001]

Close to what Jacko said.

If I'm remembering correctly, the ratio is that doubling the power only gives an increase of 3dB. Even considering that dB is a logarithmic scale, 3dB isn't a whole lot. Like I said before, if you're playing in a room big enough to where a 50 watt amp gets drowned out, going to a 100 watt amp isn't going to solve your problem. The only way to solve the problem at that point is to go through the PA.

Running through the PA does MUCH more than just make it louder. Try this. Have the guy with the 100 watt amp play while you stand in front of it, looking right at the speakers (not too close, don't need hearing damage). Then step back until you are twice as far away from the amp. You'll notice a slight drop in volume, but not a whole lot. Now go back to where you were originally standing and get used to the volume again. Then move to where you are the same distance from the amp, but over to the side of it instead of in front of it (like at a 45 degree angle, or 90, or whatever). You will notice a HUGE drop in percieved volume.

Most guitar speakers are incredibly directional, and only project their intended sound in a very narrow cone in front of them. Driving them harder (like with 100w instead of 50w) does not improve this problem. They are a little louder, but they are still missing all of the clearness and definition that gives it a good, powerful sound. Basically, the people right in front of the stage would hear awesome sound, but the people off to the sides would hear nothing but mush. The ONLY way to fix this problem is to run the sound through the PA, which has a MUCH wider dispersal field, and are designed to evenly distribute all frequencies across a very wide angle.

 

[Scottgman]

I wouldn't even worry about playing live. I've never played a club that didn't want to mic my amp and run it through the PA. I'd go out on a limb and say a club that didn't do that is the exception to the rule. I'm sure there are places that don't have a PA or whatever... but if it's a halfway respectable live music venue, your amp will be mic'd regardless of the wattage.

I use a 30-watt Budda tube amp and it is plenty loud for rehearsal over a heavy-handed drummer. I always put it on something to get it off the ground and more at ear level-- a chair or another speaker cabinet. We used to have another guitarist with a Mesa Boogie half stack and he could blow me away volume-wise... but he never did because it was overkill. My 30-watt amp is PLENTY loud and we are a rock band that plays some fairly aggressive stuff.

I had a THD Hot Plate for about a year. It was pretty cool, but when attenuating my 30-watt tube amp down to bedroom levels, it affected the tone alot (too much). I ended up buying a V-amp that I run through my studio monitors (or headphones) and use that as my practice amp-- I leave the Budda at the rehearsal space.

I don’t think you can really get around compromising the tone when it comes to attenuating. If too much volume is really an issue yet you still want the best possible tone your amp will produce… the only thing you can do is get the lowest-watt tube amp you can find (and that will still probably be too loud ).

 

[ggunn]

theres pretty much no difference between 50 and 100 watt amps, except maybe 20 decibles tops, but its like 140 compaired to 120, that is when both amps are clipping, the real difference is a 100 watt amp has a tighter low end, so you shouldnt really have a problem with half the wattage

Even if your numbers were accurate, 20 decibels is a whole lot of difference. From the webpage at http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jw/dB.html, I see that the difference between a 10 watt amp and a 100 watt amp is only 10 dB.

Quoting the website:
=============================================================
# All else equal, how much louder is loudspeaker driven (in its linear range) by a 100 W amplifier than by a 10 W amplifier?

The powers differ by a factor of ten, which, as we saw above, is 10 dB. All else equal here means that the frequency responses are equal and that the same input signal is used, etc. So the frequency dependence should be the same. 10 dB corresponds to 10 phons. To get a perceived doubling of loudness, you need an increase of 10 phons. So the speaker driven by the 100 W amplifier is twice as loud as when driven by the 10 W, assuming you stay in the linear range and don't distort or destroy the speaker. (The 100 W amplifier produces twice as many sones as does the 10 W.)
=============================================================

You are correct, however, in saying that a 100 watt amp is not that much louder than a 50 watt amp.

 

[punkin]

I like the THD stuff. I have a stand-alone unit for the big toys and there's one built into my Univalve. The stand alone unit sounds better to me...a little less affect on the tone.

Works for me...I like it.

 

[Elmo89m]

but then i would want to get a 100w right. because if it isnt much louder and loudness is my problem than the 100w would be right, because why would i want to sacrifice a "tighter low end" as someone above mentioned?

 

[Outlaws]

but then i would want to get a 100w right. because if it isnt much louder and loudness is my problem than the 100w would be right, because why would i want to sacrifice a "tighter low end" as someone above mentioned?

Because a 'tigher low end' isn't what everyone is looking for.

But really, when the amp is cranked, you will notice a lack of headroom with the 50 watter, but maybe get too much with the 100. So you might want to go play them first. -tell the guys at Guitar Center to suck a phat fucking **** if they say to turn it down.

 

[punkin]

it's not for everyone but I like a tight lower end.

 

[Walter Tore]

I favor the THD hotplate. I tried a few and its the one that sounded best to my ears. It has two tone switches too, to boost either highs or lows (independently). I also like the fact that you can get basically any level you want. Rory

I also use the thd hotplate, and love it. To hear an example of it in use, click below and go to the song Albert and Roy on My Mind. It is quite a ways down. I have over 400 songs on the site. It is about my days with them. Anyway, it was recorded live, with my bassist and drummer, in my living room, with about 20 people present. I used no PA, or amplification on the vocals. My drummer is a 60 year old woman, that can swing a beat, and keep it quiet like only JImmy Carl Black can. He was with me 7 years. I wasn't shouting either on this session.

Using the hotplate does take getting used to, because traditionally when an amp breaks up, it is moving alot of air. I have had the hotplate for over a year, and would never gig without it. I was using a fender tele, and a deluxe reverb on that session. Walter

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pageartist.cfm?bandID=157137

 

[Light]

I've been using my Weber Mass for a while now, and I like it. The amp does seem to break up a bit faster when I turn the Mass down below about 5, but it works very nice, and THAT tone is still there.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi