Being fined?

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RideTheCrash

RideTheCrash

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Sorryt his isn't really recording based, but your the only board that would give me a mature reply. I have some friend who claims you could get fined if you don't have a license to "gig". I gigged once at a mall and I've never heard of such bullcrap in my life, but he believes everything our high school music teacher says, so you know. Anyone want to debunk this?
 
Technically, he's right...

...bars/club-owners must pay blanket license fees to allow the bands they hire to play covers of other artists songs.

If a band plays in a mall that doesn't pay this blanket fee, the band themselves would be repsonsible for it.
 
Ah yeah, I know about covers, but original? Like, geez, I dunno. It doesn't matter to me, but thanks.
 
No...

...if the band was playing all-originals, they wouldn't need to pay blanket royalty license fees.

However, cities and municipalities may require bands to obtain permits to play in public places. This has nothing to do with royalties or mechanical licenses -- just a cash grab by the municipality.
 
Play whereever you want. I have played in clubs for 30 years and I have never seen any such liscence.
Tell the music teacher to get his head out of the classroom.
 
The City of St. Louis tried that shit (performance permits for bands that performed within the city limits) a few years back. It died on the vine and pissed off all the local bands and club owners.
 
Well apparently it's called the Musicians Union, and when I look it up all I get is British based stuff on it. The guy I was talking to brought the class's bass player to talk to me about it and he claims there is but it's mainly for "higher end bars/jazz whatever".

I remember a while back hearing you had to pay for doing covers... but it's not as enforced on live performances, I dunno.
 
Ah....

In some places, many of the clubs will require you to be a member of the union to play..and the club can be fined if they violate it because of an agreement they have with the union.

The union cant very well fine you if you arent a member....they are not a government entity.

Around here, no club pays union rates....theres not point to being a member of the union.
 
The musician's union is more of a joke than anything. I was a member for several years (I was full time - doing the Vegas scene, etc). If you are a member of a classical orchestra then you need to be union. Possibly some of the cruise lines require union playesr. If you play the big rooms in Vegas/Tahoe/Atlantic City, etc. then there is a chance you could get "carded". But in local bars/nightclubs the union means nothing.

As far as mechanical royalties license fees - many clubs do pay them and many clubs don't pay them. Let's face it the organizations can't monitor everyplace (maybe if a specific complaint was filed they may contact a given club).

I have gigged for over 35 years (that's a lot of gigs) and I think I've been carded twice and I have never heard of a club being "audited" by any other organizations.
 
Recently, a local mexican resturant got hit for not paying royalties for their strolling musicians. They just fired the musicians that had been playing their for tips for for the last decade or two. It was kind of sad.
 
At least two falacies on this thread.

"Mechanical Royalties" have nothing to do with public performance. They are paid for use of copyrighted material on recordings (ie. reproduced by "mechanical" means).

Performers are NOT liable for public performance royalties/licensing. It is the responsibility of the "producing body" (ie. the club owner -- or, in your case, the management company who owns the mall). You, as a performer, are not liable for these fees (at least in the U.S.).

I know nothing of Union regs or practices.

In order to use live or recorded music in your business (and performances in the public spaces of a mall would be considered the mall management company using music in their business), you must obtain "Public Performance Clearance" from the owner of the copyrights to that music, or from their designated representative. In the U.S. that would be ASCAP, BMI and/or SESAC. For a single event once -a-year or just occasional things, while single event licenses are available, most venues just blow it off because it is not worth the time or $$ of the P.R.O.s ("Performing Rights Organizations) to persue any legal recourse. For a venue (like a bar or club -- or a mall that has music every weekend), if they don't have the licenses (which range from several hundred to several thousand dollars per year -- depending on how the music is used), they will eventually get sued and they will lose.

If you are performing all originals, then the venue does not need to get anyone's permission but yours (which I assume they have).

DCMaguire
(Former ASCAP licensing enforcement employee)
 
DCMcguire,

I stand corrected - I looked back at my post and I did reference mechanical royalties (in conjunction with live performance) - which was an error.

I do believe club owners who have "jukeboxes" can be subject to
clearance issues - which I believe are monitored by the organizations. I always thought this feel under mechanicals - but after re-reading the guidelines I find myself to be wrong

I am not aware of very many local bars/clubs that have applied for or paid for public perforance clearance, nor have I heard of many that were ever audited.

I suspect the larger "high profile" venues that bring in national talent may be monitored - but not the small clubs that hire only local acts.
 
Jukeboxes are a special category. They were licensed even before clubs and bars were licensed. The jukebox distributor is responsible for that license.

BTW - It was the courts that made ASCAP and BMI start going after clubs, bars and other entertainment venues for licensing royalties. They basiclly said "you can;t pick and choose which users must pay -- if ANY user must get permission then you must make a reasonable effort to make sure ALL users pay." Thus the licensing divisions of the PROs were born.

Depending on what part of the country you're in, you'll see more or fewer music users who are aware of (and who comply with) the copyright laws as they pertain to public performance. In places like Nashville, New York, LA, etc, it is a well known requirement and just another cost of doing business. In the Boston area (where I was a rep back in the 80s), I'd say about 1/2 the clubs knew what was required. Many of the smaller clubs thought it was a scam. I had MANY club owner's attornies telling their clients that they didn't have to pay the fees. Boy were they surprised when we finally took them to court and sued on behalf of some writer and publisher -- to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars (a stiff penalty for not paying a $400 or $500 per year licensing fee).

Bars and small clubs are just as responsible for getting public performance clearance as major venues. The big difference is how far away from a regional licensing office you are and how often a rep is in your area.
 
So, DCMaguire, how does one go about getting a job as a ASCAP licensing enforcement employee?


Good to have you here...
 
I just answered a help wanted ad.

Actually, I forget exactly what we were called ("enforcement," is my term) though after dealing with a big jerk for a while, it was always satisfying to see the "enforcement" of the copyright laws. :) My boss even had a gun pulled on him once by a club owner.

It's the toughest, most thankless job I ever had. Lots of turnover. It's like having a job in sales, but nobody wants what you're selling.

It did give me a good basic knowledge of music copyrights, though.
 
DCMaguire said:
I just answered a help wanted ad.

Actually, I forget exactly what we were called ("enforcement," is my term) though after dealing with a big jerk for a while, it was always satisfying to see the "enforcement" of the copyright laws. :) My boss even had a gun pulled on him once by a club owner.

It's the toughest, most thankless job I ever had. Lots of turnover. It's like having a job in sales, but nobody wants what you're selling.

It did give me a good basic knowledge of music copyrights, though.
Click to expand...

Sounds like my kind of gig.....I like pissing people off. Dont suppose it paid very well....
 
I demand that Congress pass more laws concerning this subject. I am sick and tired of hearing these Louisiana bands play other peoples' music without asking and getting away with it. This MUST be enforced vigorously with severe punishment for offenders. If you are doing this, I must insist that you stop it immediately.
 
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